General Discussion Depression & Mental Health Thread

Discussion in 'NRL Discussion' started by BiggerD, Oct 29, 2016.



  1. dean
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    dean 1st Grade Fringe

    It hasn't made my mental health issues any worse. All due respect to Lewis Brown and co, but are football clubs , football clubs or therapy centres. People have problems in all walks of life. It is not the employers responsibility to address these problems in my opinion. Sure, an employer can suggest an employee get outside help but I don't think they need provide that service. As for footballers falling to pieces at the end of their careers, give me a break. If they are that dumb that they think it will go on forever, that is their stupidity. People get made redundant all the time, businesses go broke, small subbies don't get paid, thats life in the real world. It is the university of hard knocks, get up an have another go, you will feel so much better for it. If you need help get the vapouriser out.
     
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  2. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    A lot of companies employ EAP (employee assistance programme) to help employees who are struggling with their performance due to drug and alcohol or mental health problems, or even financial problems. My idea was to link it to performance. Many top professionals in companies even get a complete psychological to show their strengths, weaknesses, and motivational tendencies. Saves a lot of time if you catch problems before and not after they occur (ie. gang of 6).
     
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  3. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Agreed, but league is a tough game and the attitude has always been, especially in Australia, that when the going gets tough, the tough get going.

    In other words they want the tough people and couldn't care less about those who fall by the wayside. My guess if anything has changed it would just be lip service.
     
  4. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    True, but there's a real push publicly towards mental health and suicide, which has recently been in the news. A tough message from the team could be, "if you have mental health problems, or addiction or whatever, you need to get some help so your performance is at a level that the team can count on you. They need to treat it like physio. Got get some help to improve your performance. Gotta be linked to performance to get the message across.
     
  5. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Mate these kids will have KPI's coming out their ears, how do you do a KPI for mental health? Not knocking your point but I see it as sort of telling people who want you to be tough and staunch (cos they really do) that you are not as tough and staunch as they think.

    I remember back in the day, when I was in a sort of job that had internal staff welfare officers. They were guys who were there for you to spew your guts to if you were in any sort of emotional turmoil. The trouble was everybody believed they were just a hotline to the boss to let him know who was cracking up and why.

    So nobody told them anything.
     
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  6. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    Yeah, that is a problem. Even though it's supposed to be confidential, it often isn't. But people applaud Lewis Brown for coming forward. Players (and hopefully staff) were gutted when Chad Robinson topped himself. The NRL also preaches mental health and seeking help. As long as there's a mindset that you have to be tough, and not get help, this will continue. Teams DO hire welfare officers to handle some of this. I'm just thinking it needs to be better coordinated. And let's not forget what Manu went through. Everyone on this site, and all the Warriors, were concerned about his well being rather than how tough he was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  7. dean
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    dean 1st Grade Fringe

    Is player mental health really about the players well being or keeping the NRL brand image clean? That goes for almost every employer but particularly those with a marketing brand.
     
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  8. Gizzyfan
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    Gizzyfan 1st Grade Fringe

    It is illness, take the 'Mental' out of it and we will advance this a lot better. There is no stigma to this. Do people get whispered about because they get an infection, or the Flu, or whatever.

    Making it an illness brings it out into the open, takes the stigma away. If a player has an illness the Club should sort out the right treatment.
     
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  9. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Manu was a star by then. If he was Manu an 18 year old kid he would not have got the same sympathy.
     
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  10. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    No, take the illness out of it, not the mental. There is no evidence of any of the diagnosis being an illness. No blood test, no DNA, no MRI, has ever found an illness. In the psychiatry bible, the DSM, it is a disorder, not an illness. But that shouldn't minimise what people with mental health problems go through, whether it be schizophrenia, depression, addictions, etc.
     
  11. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    Do you mean voluntary, or neutral? And clearly, as others have pointed out, supporting each other is about being tough, not helping each other out. No one helped out Manu until he went too far, or Brown, or Robinson.
     
  12. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    No, it's you spreading mis-information by saying "illness." I'm not hung up on it. It's just that it's not true. Words are important. I'm ok with diagnosis, but realise that the DSM is a metaphor, not real. It's a description of a set of behaviours, feelings, thoughts, etc. With the DSM, something is a disorder one edition of the DSM, it isn't the next. Such as Aspergers. It's no longer a diagnosis now.

    You say that blood test, MRI, and urine tests are "diagnostic in many psychiatric disorders." That's not mis-information, that's a lie! No DHB in mental health, or anywhere, does this. I consult in a number of them, and it's never done. Why, because you can't diagnose a psychiatric condition that way.

    True, I don't like to label people. You ask how I help them with a diagnostic classification system. I meet with the client/patient, and find out what their issues are, and we work on those. If they come diagnosed, and want to work on that, that's what we work on. I work with the client, not a diagnostic system.
     
  13. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    I don't know what your relationship is to mental health, but you tell me one place, just one, where they do urine screening, MRI, or a blood test to determine a mental health diagnosis. Not a urine drug screen, that's done everywhere, but for a mental health screen. I'll call them up and ask them.

    Been on the front line mental health for 40 years in the US, Europe, NZ, and OZ, and what you are saying is rubbish. I think, reading your post, that you are talking about Neurology, or Neuro-psychiatry. Still, my challenge stands. Just one. Give me the phone number and I'll call them. If you're right, I'll apologise.
     
  14. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    As I thought. You can't name one place in NZ, or else the world, where they do MRI, urine, or blood testing to determine a mental health diagnosis. I believe you work in the field. Just asked what your relationship is with mental health. Three reasons why you are wrong about doing testing for a mental health diagnosis: 1) money, 2) time, or 3) it's not true. They wouldn't know what to look for. They could look for dopamine, but that wouldn't confirm a diagnosis. No need to give you my qualifications. But if you care, you can get on my webpage at Link has been hidden. Please Register to view. and see the books I've written and where I've worked. Even better, why don't you show me one article of research which explains what you're talking about. Just ONE.
     
  15. Miket12
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    Miket12 Warriors 1st Grader

    You two are doing my head in.... and now I don't know how it can be diagnosed""""
     
  16. snake77
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    snake77 Warriors 1st Grader

    They are driving me crazy as well. This thread is going mental.:p
     
  17. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    I don't know my diagnosis either, buy I decided that seclusion was the answer on this thread. I'll feel better after some time out. No meds please.
     
  18. Sup42
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    Sup42 "Dave"

    Ive deleted all my posts because arguing with you is a waste of time, you don't read what's written and arguing with you is pissing people off. You asking me for proof of something I already explained to you exists in every dhb, but your too narrow to consider that the like of dementia's are detectable by MRI.....CT Scanning is better for that in any case. but u are stuck on too narrow a definiton of mental health disorders.
     
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  19. Sup42
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    Sup42 "Dave"

    Hey Diehard I had a look at your Website.
    Much respect to you and your Expertise in your field, John Hopkins is one of the of most renowned institutions, a PHD from there is well beyond my academic endeavors in the field.

    It is probably fitting that we argued since as a Psychologist, your world veiw has a heavy Bias toward Nurture, My own training and experience at the coal face is heavily biased towards Nature in the Great mental health debate of Nature (biological medical model)that is Psychiatry Versus Psychology.

    The truth is a combination of both is the answer.
     
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  20. diehard
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    diehard 1st Grade Fringe

    Thanks Dave, but the truth is that I'm the other guy. The PhD is my wife's from Hopkins. I have a Masters Degree in SW with post graduate training in family therapy from a Jay Haley, a world renowed expert. My wife mainly does developmental diagnosis, testing, and treatment with children. And trains people throughout the world. I specialise in mental health and do clinical work and training with her sometimes. Yes, I do lean heavily more towards Nurture, but I spend a lot of my time supervising and training psychiatrists, psychologists, SW'ers, mental health workers, nurses, etc. in NZ and OZ. Almost all who work for the DHB have a medical model background. I try to teach them that a person is more than their diagnosis and meds. I try to get them to understand that their family, friends, workmates, environment, all has an impact on their well being. Previously, I spent many years in the Waitemata mental health system as a clinician and Clinical Director.

    So yes, I lean strongly on the Nurture end, but accept where people are coming from. If it's a DHB, I accept that it's a medical model, but look to broaden their thinking and skills.

    Hope this helps explain myself, and if I was rude, I apologise. If you're working inpatient, you have a very tough job. Good luck to you, and your clients.