General Discussion Has the Warriors and the NRL destroyed the New Zealand game

Discussion in 'General Warriors Discussion' started by drake83, Jul 14, 2017.



  1. drake83
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    drake83 1st Grade Fringe

    I'm probably a bit too young for this (12 in 95) but am asking the question after hearing all the stories of the great fox comp we had and the great Auckland teams that beat Australia.
    So have the Warriors and the NRL destroyed the game in NZ?
     

  2. Waiting For Premiership
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    Waiting For Premiership 1st Grade Fringe

    Don't think the NRL have destroyed League in NZ. The Warriors have done that all on their own. Also the way SK wants the Warriors to play like, is totally destroying fan respect up and down the country .
     
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  3. Diesel
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    Diesel 1st Grade Fringe

    Definitely need another team in the comp to counter the Warriors.
    When the Warriors are playing how they have over the past 22 years, it's the shop front for RL in NZ
     
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  4. drake83
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    drake83 1st Grade Fringe

    Taking our youth and next teir players out of our domestic game has killed it professionalism has killed it
     
  5. Defence
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    Defence 1st Grade Fringe

    In the South Island it's definitely gone backwards at a rate of knots since the warriors came in.
    Tbf tho that also coincided with union going professional.
     
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  6. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE Contributor

    Even union in rural South Island has gone backwards...
     
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  7. demco
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    demco 1st Grade Fringe

    yes it has killed it big time
     
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  8. ToiletDuck
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    ToiletDuck Dr Faggot Contributor

    Don't think it has killed it, though the Warriors have certainly missed a golden opportunity to make it more mainstream. The NRL has a strong following in NZ, and would do so even without the Warriors around, as many supporters were into rugby league prior to 1995. General league stories, State of Origin etc all get a lot of attention here. Had the Warriors been able to capitalise on that, then you'd imagine league interest would have intensified. As is, not much has changed. People who enjoy league will continue to do so regardless of whether the Warriors exist. Also I think that the last thing we need is a second NZ side. If the Warriors have proven one thing, it's that this country produces fuck all proper league players.
     
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  9. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    In two words, not yet, but they are giving it a good go.

    If it were not for the financial mismanagement around 1995 the club would have been set up for years, the Auckland Rugby League would not have had to bail out to preserve their assets.

    They would have had funds, and a system, to promote the game not just in Auckland but further.

    Instead the League had to bail out and leave the club to a series of disasters ever since.

    If not for those disasters the Auckland league would have been able to address the imbalance of young Polynesian kids playing smaller European kids, the urban drift from the declining rural areas and the competition for talent from Australia.

    Instead you had had a dysfunctional Warriors club, a dysfunctional NZRL (except for when JD was in charge) getting in the way of what was a pretty well run Auckland Rugby League.

    Is that just a coincidence that suited the power brokers in Sydney?

    Many in the game don't think so. The Sydney clubs knew how strong Auckland was. They were worried it might be another Brisbane heading their way. So rather than see the damage to the game here they just watched and let it happen. Some think that Ian Robson was recommended to the initial Warriors board from the NSWRL.

    That is my problem with Eric Watson. I don't know that he bleeds for the game. He has presided over the out of control Mick Watson, the in house politics that saw Ivan Cleary and John Hart shafted, and maybe even the bro culture itself.

    Rugby league was never a "bro game". It was working class and lower socio economic in Auckland, the coal miners in Northland, Waikato and the West Coast and also a mainly Maori game in the other rural areas. So some hard bastards and crooks played the game, but they did not dominate its culture.

    Looking nostalgically back, which might piss some people off, but one major mistake Peter McLeod and his original board made was going with DB instead of Lion Breweries.

    Lion had supported the game for years. DB were just trying to cash in on the hype. Douglas Myers of Lion would never have let Ian Robson get away with what he did. I doubt he would have survived much into the first season, he probably would have even seen through him at the first interview when he turned up late because he thought the Warriors were based in Christchurcho_O.

    Myers, through Lion supported Peter Blake to win the Americas Cup. Myers in later interviews was scathing in his opinion of Russell Coutts contribution to the cause. He said he seemed to be spending too much time playing golf. Just imagine that type of person overlooking the Warriors sponsorship. It is worth considering what might have happened.

    Sorry about the rant, but what has been missing from the Warriors since 1994 is a hard nosed but altruistic business approach seeing the Warriors as the flagship for the national game.

    I am sure Jim Doyle has that altruistic vision, and his motives for the game are possibly far more noble than many others who have happened on the journey.

    What has to stop though is any more bullshit.
     
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  10. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    That is a sad comment. It never was true, and if it is now it is even sadder.
     
  11. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    The warriors have turned into a cash cow...

    Loads of Kiwi's love the NRL and therefore love the NZ team in the NRL. But the NZ team is stacked full of players who don't love the NRL, guys who see it as an institution that is able to pay them shitloads of money, but is also out to get them because they aren't of the mainstream.

    RL is essentially a white mans game. The stands are mostly full of white faces. If you hate white people then why are you going to put in the extra effort to win for the evil Whites yelling at you from the stands, when you can get paid the same to make some awesome highlights every third game?

    Too much reality?

    As for NZ League in general, not as many kids growing up today in NZ look at the Warriors and dream about one day playing for them the way SJ did when he was a nipper still new to the world... They're all looking at the AB's, because young kids have no idea about money, and those guys always play for the team and they always play to win.

    When was the last time an 11 year old dreamed about being the player signing a record breaking contract? That's how old SJ was when we went to the GF in 2001. His dream was all about winning, and that's why he sometimes manages to put on the winning plays, when the pressure in at it's maximum, in the big games. Without that dream of victory for the club embedded early on into his brain he wouldn't have the right vision to make those plays at the death, under fatigue, when the crowd is at it's most blood thirsty. He'd be another Tui Lolohea, or Carlos Daily.

    It's also the only dream that will get you a big contract and a sweet career after footy as well fyi... Just saying. Fans are paying for victories, not highlights...

    Everything good comes from winning. Nothing good comes from losing. As long as the Warriors are happy to lose the game in NZ will continue to struggle. If that's too much pressure for a player, get a job at Bunnings or McDonalds and chillax with your buds... Cause I have a feeling it's about to get way worse in the very near future.
     
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  12. kiwi's 13-6
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    kiwi's 13-6 1st Grade Fringe

    Yes, the reasons why are 20+ years of Warriors over hype and under delivering, NRL taking money out of NZ economy from followers of the game apart from warriors club grant almost $0 reinvestment in game in NZ from NRL, Constant poor recruitment, retention & coaching by warriors. local game outside Auckland is now totally amateur & Fox memorial is now half of what it was....
     
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  13. Matulino#1
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    Matulino#1 1st Grade Fringe

    I've often wondered what a win in 2002 may have done for Rugby League in this country.

    My gut tells me it would have had an enormous effect with major increases in junior enrolment. Those kids would be early 20s now.

    Now though, I sense that even a win would fail to inspire as much as it could have, particularly as the All Blacks have managed to have an era of such dominance.
     
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  14. Brother Faisal
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    Brother Faisal 1st Grade Fringe

    I'll just add my view on the club and the game in general in NZ. Im abit young to know much about the history of league in this country as I was just a kid when the warriors came out, I was a Te Atatu Roosters Junior but thats as far as I went, I didn't realise how much rugby union subtlely impacts kids, you move to a new school and area and all of a sudden i was playing rugby with my school mates, just a change in geography can change a young mans sporting influences but I will alway be a league fan before all else but I don't mind the odd rugby game.

    Back to the point. I think the club has gone through eras, i remember the 95 start it was awesome, but we dropped off if i remember in that period, it wasnt till really 2001 when we beat melbourne was it to make the 8 then parramatta killed us in the first round, that win against melbourne was amazing and for fans it was the best. then we all know 2002. then some dark patches again 2004 then some light in 2008-2011 which we though at the time was too inconsistent with cleary but if you think about it it was quite consistent from what we've seen. Honestly the worst period of being a warriors fan has been 2012-now I have noticed alot of fans have logged out because their isnt any comeback or fight in this team and fans are smarter about the game nowadays i feel. Even though years ago we would be down we would always fight back to come back. those days are gone.


    If nothing comes out of this club in the next 5 years it could be very sad, it could be worse than the newcastle knights.

    From what I know the ARL were and maybe are outside the warriors the strongest league organisation in the country, the NZRL can't even compete with the ARL and so they have alot of power but bruce is probably right, the warriors did screw up at the start and I think its a thing of ownership, I've never really seen the warriors as part of the NZRL or ARL or any existing club with history in new zealand like a mt albert etc its got its own identity. With that it became the new pathway for league players and in a great way the nrl has provided so many young kiwis with job opportunities.

    I dont know what im saying but maybe the question is were league players better pre warriors than they are post warriors? were they developed better through the ARL and other clubs and if so why is the system failing new zealand league players now?
     
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  15. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    I think when you have guys laughing their heads off at training, then getting absolutely smashed on game day, and when you factor in the money they are pulling, it sets a bad example for the u20s... It's very confusing... They get the idea that if you're not a gifted athlete with a big Facebook personality, don't bother...
     
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  16. ramraider78
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    ramraider78 1st Grade Fringe

    ATM with the Warriors losing like they have for the past few seasons IMO has effected the game nationally, cause from what i was told recently player registration numbers nationally have been on the decline around about the time we made the GF last, the decline started then. I could go on about what I've seen in the local Auckland game for the few years but when the warriors were winning and making the play offs, grass roots footy was flourishing. The damage the coaching merry go round and disjointed front office dramas post Cleary, set us back years IMO and we are still trying to find a way out of it TBH. During those years under Ackland's reign for the U 20's , he was easy to work with in terms of releasing players to local clubs, setting boundaries and seeing actual player development - my local club benefited from kids learning under him in the 20's , since he left , the rest have been KAKA to deal with IMO. If we ever contemplated another NZ based NRL team , ATM Christchurch is the only viable option - has a decent local competition, for number (no where near auckland)
     
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  17. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    I don't think race comes into it.

    The story goes that the northern clubs in England were so impressed with the style of play of the NZ Native team (Maoris) that toured around 1888 - 89 that set the spark for the eventual breakaway in 1895 to form the North Rugby Union, which is now rugby league.

    So yes in England it was a white coal miners game, and in Auckland for decades it was a more white game than it is now but in the country areas where league is played it has always been more a Maori game.

    That has coincided with a massive run by the All Blacks as well. However rugby union in the southern hemisphere has big problems in that both South Africa and Australia are weakening, for different reasons. I can see the All Black dominance waning, if for no other reason the Southern Hemisphere teams are going to provide such weak opposition. If the All Blacks cop a few hidings and the Warriors can get their act together things might change, hopefully.
     
  18. Sup42
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    Sup42 "Dave"

    The Warriors have become the flagship of the sport.

    Initially that was a good thing.....they were able to provoke interest as the David in a contest of Goliaths.....as such they were a continuation of past Ancestors of the Warriors.

    Over time they have unintentionally betrayed that legend of Giant slayers and become synonymous with inconsistency and mental frailty.

    That is the undeniable truth of how this franchise is seen offshore.....visit any forum outside the Warrior Bubble.... and even NRL neutrals with a fondness for the Kiwi underdogs will spell that out for you.

    Listen to any player or coach who has fought for two NRL points against the Warriors and you will Hear the same mantra ' they are capable of putting a lot of points on you....but they will give you the opportunity to win....if you are good enough to take it you will beat them '
    .
    This mindset is a pure Warrior creation.

    Before they came along.....our legend was 1) physically the toughest style of game in the world 2) Unpredictable 3) NEVER SAY DIE

    So yeah the Warriors franchise are the variable that took away that Aura and replaced it with predictable weak spots.

    League fans of old would be booing this team were they playing in a different era....coz league fans of old expected War every single game they watched....win or lose....Auckland went to War.

    How sad this shiney jersey selling lot of shiesters are by comparison.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  19. Brother Faisal
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    Brother Faisal 1st Grade Fringe

    Agree with you. From what I hear of the arl teams of the past they fought hard no matter what. That's the missing piece. You have to say that no warriors team beats the Comraderie of the 2002 squad. Each player was a character but you sensed they all fought for each other. Today it's a selfish system. Everyone is looking out for themselves and contracts at the end of the day are more important than playing for your team. That's probably the biggest difference between us and the storm. It's not that they have 3 hall of famers but that they all buy in to the culture and bleed for Bellamy and each other. We've got guys going to weddings. Some don't wanna play. Matulino s given up. Forans a mental mess. The TEAM isn't there. Individuals are but not the team. 2002 era was the most gelling team of coconut footy basketball playing amazing football I've seen in the nrl but at the end of the day they were a team with strong leadership and most of all belief that they could win. That was the real bro culture. The bro culture now is 'as long as I get mine Im all good'.
     
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  20. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    That 2002 team had a special captain...Stacey Jones...and a very special backline leader in Ivan Cleary.
     
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