General Discussion Its the DEFENCE. THATS THE PROBLEM.

Discussion in 'General Warriors Discussion' started by BeastMode, Mar 18, 2017.



  1. BeastMode
    Posts:
    3,230
    Likes:
    3,735
    Join:
    Mar 7, 2015

    BeastMode Warriors 1st Grader

    100%. We need to monitor this stat going forward.

    Attack is a problem, but the real issue is DEFENCE.

    I will give Kearney some credit - we're leaking less than 30 points to start the season which is an improvement from the last 4 rounds of 2016. However we started 2016 with similar defensive stats and it got progressively worst.... watch this space boys......

    2016
    Rd1 -Tigers -LOSS 26-34
    Rd2 - Broncos- LOSS 10-25
    Rd3 - Storm - LOSS 14-21
    .
    .

    Rd23 - Rabbits - LOSS 22-41
    Rd24 - Cows - LOSS 6-34
    Rd25 - Tigers-LOSS 24-36
    Rd26 - Eels - LOSS 18-40

    2017

    Rd 1 Knights - WIN!!! 26-22
    Rd2 Storm - LOSS 10-26
    Rd3 Dogs - LOSS 12-24
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 2
    • List

  2. AusWarriorsFan
    Posts:
    268
    Likes:
    175
    Join:
    Sep 4, 2016

    AusWarriorsFan Warriors Bench Player

    To some extent, but when you are constantly in the oppositions 20 and not get repeat sets of six thats going to cost you points at your own end, if we were doing nothing but being offense we wouldnt need to worry about defense.

    I feel like all we are doing is hitting the ball up with forwards, full stop, and nothing else.

    I think we have had some MUCH better goal line defense this year than last year, but had we put 30 more points on the bulldogs last night, they wouldnt be in a position to constantly test our defense. Last year we would have let through almost every set on our goal line, thats not the case this year. But we dont want to be playing on our goal line and we have had so much ball at the other end without repeat sets. Thats the real problem, not getting down the other end but staying there.

    The REAL problem is we have no way of getting over the opposition line outside individual brilliance (which is not how a team should score points consistantly)
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 6
    • List
  3. BeastMode
    Posts:
    3,230
    Likes:
    3,735
    Join:
    Mar 7, 2015

    BeastMode Warriors 1st Grader

    Fair point.

    The real problem is we're not switched on for 80MINUTES.

    Goal line defence has been good, but then they'll switch off and let in the most easiest of tries.
    It completely undo's all the hard work.

    Or they'll do something really stupid and give away a penalty, drop a ball.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 2
    • List
  4. kiwi's 13-6
    Posts:
    489
    Likes:
    591
    Join:
    Nov 3, 2013

    kiwi's 13-6 1st Grade Fringe

    What Ozzie rednecks like steve roach call jungle ball... but in less racially offensive terms is called "off the cuff" or "ab lib footy" or relying on a single players "individual moment of brilliance" to score themselves or set up a try for someone else... this type of footy should be the icing on the cake or a sides plan B... warriors just cant seem to score off a set play at all... Warriors backline moves are just going through the motions! Passes dont get put in gaps, players dont position themselves correctly to run the right angles into gaps or distribute the ball well enough to create gaps for there team mates. We also lack organised runners trailing backline moves & running the right angles off them to hit gaps. Every time we spin the ball out the backline there was already an opposition defender directly in front of our player who has then covered before our player has even caught the ball..?

    Our defense needs a few tweaks Kata over committed on one occasion rushing across on a opposition player who was already marked by another player leaving a huge gap & that try turned the momentum of the game against us is the one defensive lapse that really stood out
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 2
    • List
  5. wallacenz
    Posts:
    6,150
    Likes:
    6,231
    Join:
    May 7, 2012

    wallacenz Warriors 1st Grader

    No doubt the Warriors suck on defence but when the Warriors spend 20minutes on attack and only manage 1 try, thats a problem with the attack.

    The comms mentioned zero linebreaks about halfway through the 2nd half, thats poor attack
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 3
    • List
  6. BeastMode
    Posts:
    3,230
    Likes:
    3,735
    Join:
    Mar 7, 2015

    BeastMode Warriors 1st Grader

    Lets focus on defence in this thread.

    Who in out backline would you call a solid reliable tackler?

    Manu?
    RTS?
    SJ?
    Lolohea?

    These are the "stars" of our so call backline but relative to technique, instincts and commitment- very poor on D. They will be just as likely to lose us matches as they are to win.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 4
    • List
  7. kiwi's 13-6
    Posts:
    489
    Likes:
    591
    Join:
    Nov 3, 2013

    kiwi's 13-6 1st Grade Fringe

    Yep beast mode Jim Doyle needs to be signing well rounded players who can defend as well as they attack right from the start in the junior grades... we seem to think that quality defense can be coached into these attacking players... which has never happend so far in our clubs history perhaps Kata is only recent example of anyone in warriors backline who defence has noticeably improved even then the guys still got a way to go...
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 3
    • List
  8. AusWarriorsFan
    Posts:
    268
    Likes:
    175
    Join:
    Sep 4, 2016

    AusWarriorsFan Warriors Bench Player

    Bingo, its not that our defense sucks for 80 minutes, its that like usual one player makes a mistake, like Lisone getting stood up.

    But if we had been converting SO much time on their try line, or at least getting more repeats, we would have tired them out to the point they would have had nothing to attack with, along with having scored 30 more points than we did.

    The fact that they only used one interchange in the first half spells out our time on their try line did nothing to tire them out, because we didnt get enough repeats let alone score.

    I think the defense is generally ok, but the warriors 80 minute curse is hard to shake and our absolute stubborness to pass the ball to a forward on the try line, time after time just shows a total lack of ball playing ability when they shut down SJ.

    That 80 minute curse tends to be young forwards missing a player, Im not a huge fan of Lisones.

    I think Harris will bring in a more dynamic second phase play and get the rest of the attacking forwards doing similar.
     

  9. jonno
    Posts:
    7,612
    Likes:
    6,287
    Join:
    Jul 13, 2014

    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    Our lack of work off the ball is the problem imo. It's causing issues for our defense and our attack.

    Lazy defensive positional play when the ball is in a different sector of the field is opening up gaps that should never be opened. Then when the ball comes flying over to greet that lazyness, we get sliced and diced.

    Same as lack of support runners makes our ball carriers easy prey. And don't get me started on our kick chase or lack there of. It's all related to that same lack of urgency off the ball.

    When you've got the smallest pack in the comp this habit of relaxing away from the play is an absolute no no. It makes victory pretty much impossible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 2
    • List
  10. bruce
    Posts:
    6,324
    Likes:
    5,742
    Join:
    Sep 1, 2015

    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    This is a subtle point. They could all argue they aren't being lazy, and they aren't ALL of the time, just SOME of the time. That is the difference between our guys and the hardened robots out of Australia. It is an attitude problem.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 3
    • List
  11. Jay M
    Posts:
    4,691
    Likes:
    6,370
    Join:
    Sep 25, 2012

    Jay M Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Good point. Our ability to tackle is not the problem. It's the off the ball work, the line speed, the dominance of the ruck the players not always turning and chasing, wanting the ball that causes a lot of the issue.

    It's the same on attack too. There is very little enthusiasm for the pack to push hard through the line and get the quick play the balls that are needed to give our backline something to work with. More often than not, our ball runner is by himself, isolated, making them an easy target for 3-4 tackles, slowing down our ruck speed.

    Good post jonnojonno
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 2
    • List
  12. jonno
    Posts:
    7,612
    Likes:
    6,287
    Join:
    Jul 13, 2014

    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    Does Defense Really Win Championships?
    January 20, 2012 @ 1:03pm
    by Link has been hidden. Please Register to view.

    Link has been hidden. Please Register to view. to view. Link has been hidden. Please Register to view. to view. Link has been hidden. Please Register to view. to view.
    Link has been hidden. Please Register to view. to view.

    Does Defense Really Win Championships?
    By Tobias J. Moskowitz and L. Jon Wertheim

    It’s at this point in the NFL postseason when every NFL analyst, pundit, and blogger will inevitably proclaim “defense wins championships.” With the NFL conference championships upon us this weekend, this phrase will be uttered more times than “yo” in a typical Jersey Shore episode. And why not?

    Last weekend we saw two of the NFL’s top offenses — Green Bay and New Orleans — lose to better defenses. Moreover, as Chris Berman himself pointed out on ESPN’s Link has been hidden. Please Register to view., 38 (out of 45) Super Bowls have been won by a top 10 defense and 22 have been won by a top three defense. The sentiment has hardened from cliché into an article of sports law. But is it actually true? Does defense really win championships?

    In a word: no.

    We found that when it comes to winning a title, or winning in sports in general for that matter, offense and defense carry nearly identical weight. For example, here’s what Berman didn’t tell you: the number of Super Bowl champs with a top 10 offense? Thirty-eight. And a top 3 offense? Twenty. In other words, offense wins championships, too.

    We further found that among the 45 NFL Super Bowls, the better defensive team — measured by points allowed that season— has won 29 times. The better offensive team won 25 times. (Note that adds up to 53, which means that some teams are the better offensive and defensive team in the Super Bowl. Nineteen Super Bowls have featured a team superior on both sides of the ball. Those teams have won 14 of those games.) It’s a slight edge for defense, but it’s a pretty close call and not different from random chance. The favorite statistic of the “defense wins championships” proponents is that the top-ranked defense during the regular season has won 15 Super Bowls, whereas the top-ranked offense has won only 8. Although this would seem to confer an advantage to defense, these two numbers are not statistically different. And, remember, since the top-three defenses have won no more than the top-three offensive teams, it also means that offensive teams ranked 2 and 3 have won more Super Bowls than the second- and third-best defensive teams, though again, these differences are not statistically significant.

    But we’re only talking about 45 games, so let’s broaden the sample size. There have been 427 NFL playoff games over the last 45 seasons. The better defensive teams have won 58 percent of them. The better offensive teams have won 62 percent of the time. (Again, the winning team is sometimes better both offensively and defensively, which explains why the total exceeds 100 percent.) That’s a slight edge to the offense, but again, pretty even.

    In almost 10,000 regular season games, the better defensive team has won 66.5 percent of the time compared with 67.4 percent of the time for the better offensive team. That’s a slight nod to the offense but a negligible difference.

    But maybe the phrase “defense wins championships” is supposed to mean is that defense is somehow more necessary than offense. Maybe a team can prevail with a middling offense, but not with a middling defense. As it turns out, that doesn’t hold up, either. Three times the Super Bowl champion ranked in the bottom half of the league in defense; only twice did it rank in the bottom half in offense. The lowest-ranked defensive team to win a Super Bowl was the 2006 Indianapolis Colts, rated nineteenth that year. (They offset that by ranking third in offense.) The lowest-ranked offensive team to win the Lombardi Trophy? The 2000 Baltimore Ravens, ranked nineteenth in offense but first in defense.

    What about when a great offense faces a great defense? Twenty-seven Super Bowls have pitted a top 5 offense against a top 5 defense. The best offensive team won 13, and the best defensive team won 14. Another stalemate.

    In the NFL it seems, you need either exceptional defense or exceptional offense to win a championship. But neither one is more important than the other.

    Okay, but does defense give an underdog more of a chance? Are upsets more likely to be sprung by defensive-minded teams?

    Sifting through the numbers, we found that the answer is again no. In the regular season, playoffs, and championships, underdog teams are no more likely to win if they are good defenders than if they are good scorers.

    If defense is no more critical to winning than offense is, why does everyone from Little League coaches to ESPN analysts extoll its importance? Well, no one needs to talk up the virtues of scoring. No one needs to create incentives for players to score more touchdowns. There’s a reason why fans exhort “De-fense, De-fense!” not “O-ffense, O-ffense!” Offense is fun. Offense is glamorous. Who gets the Nike shoe contracts and the other endorsements — the players who score or the defensive stoppers?

    Quick, which of the following set of names is more recognizable? The top five touchdown leaders in NFL history: Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, La-Dainian Tomlinson, Randy Moss, and Terrell Owens? Or the top five interception leaders: Paul Krause, Emlen Tunnell, Rod Woodson, Dick Lane, and Ken Riley?

    Bottom line: Defense is no more important than offense. It’s not defense that wins championships. In virtually every sport, you need either a stellar offense or a stellar defense, and having both is even better.

    So, who will win this weekend? Here’s how the teams stack up in terms of offense and defense:

    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.

    (Note: every team is really good at either offense or defense.)

    It’s a clear offensive vs. defensive matchup in both conference championships. If you believe the hype, it’ll be a matchup of the defensive-minded Harbaugh brothers in the Super Bowl. If you follow the numbers, it’ll likely be only one Harbaugh who makes it, but we couldn’t tell you which.