General Discussion Promotion & Relegation for the NRL?

Discussion in 'NRL Discussion' started by mt.wellington, Aug 17, 2016.



  1. Good idea

  2. Hmmmmmm?

  3. Bad idea

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  1. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington DIE FOR TONGA Contributor

    Just come across this article on the possibility of promotion & relegation. Would it work???

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    How promotion & relegation can transform the NRL
    By Mickey O’Donovan
    August 17, 2016

    PROMOTION and relegation. Let’s talk about it.

    Now you’ve played grassroots sport, right? So you’re accustomed to your team and/or your club shifting divisions (even leagues), depending on performance.

    Play crap, finish bottom, go down one rung. Kill it, win your grade/division and you’re up one. It’s simple, everyone understands it and it renews competitions.

    But at the elite level? Yeah … nah. Not going to happen. Not in the NRL or the AFL or The Big Bash or Super rugby or even in the bloody A-League.

    But given the moon-and-back gap between the best and worst in the NRL this season, we really need to consider whether there’s a better way.

    In a salary-capped league that prides itself on cut-throat competition and giving the fans value for their ticket, why should a club running so, SO far off the pace be guaranteed a place next season?

    Maybe it’s time we were all a little more open-minded because, you know, it could be a way of re-connecting the game with its suburban roots. Giving it some soul.

    Plenty of you like the English Premier League. But would it be the world’s second-biggest sporting competition if the bottom-two knew they’d be there next year, no matter how poorly they performed? The EPL has 20 teams, only four more than our great game.

    And all season, there are two key storylines: who’s going to win it … and who’s going to get relegated. Which means the next league down, the Championship, is boosted because the top two go up every year. The EPL, and therefore the clubs, are underwritten by a massive TV deal (sound familiar?), and the clubs supplement this with fat sponsorships and rich merchandise sales.

    So making it into the EPL automatically guarantees the promoted clubs a bucket of cash to spend.

    Now stay with me on this. Promotion and relegation for the NRL could create a genuine, vibrant second-tier competition.

    The Championship in the UK has come on massively in the past 10 years, benefiting from the development of the EPL. Why can’t the NSW and QLD Cup merge and become part of the NRL economy? Then they’ll be much more than a feeder competition, but a league with valuable TV rights and increasing crowds because they’re hard-wired to the NRL.

    How about having the Newtown Jets back at the big dance? The North Sydney Bears? Wynnum Manly and Ipswich? And why not the PNG Hunters?

    At a time when the game needs to show its fans that it belongs to them and not the corporate suits, this mightn’t be such a dumb idea after all.

    Yep, there are plenty of obstacles. Plenty. How do you fund this? What happens to the relegated clubs? But hey – that’s what smart people are paid to sort out.

    And they can, if they really want to. I just ask this question: who wants to see the Newtown Jets play the Broncos at Henson Park? House full. Mad atmosphere. NRL talking directly with the fans again … no brainer.

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  2. jsmooove
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    jsmooove 1st Grade Fringe

    i like the idea but no. there isnt enough talent for teams to be going up and down. also considering most second tier teams are feeder clubs are they just going to part ways
     
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  3. Lord Gnome of Howick MBE
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    Lord Gnome of Howick MBE Warriors 1st Grader

    It only works in English football because there is a professional structure of 120 clubs and semi-pro teams under that, all with promotion and relegation. But that's achievable because you have 55m people with football as the number one sport.

    Rugby league in England struggles with promotion and relegation due to the salary cap required to keep the top division relatively even, therefore making the gulf between the top two divsions huge - although Leigh beat Salford the other day so do actually have a chance of replacing them in Super League next year.
     
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  4. eudebrito
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    eudebrito |-|

    It’d be super interesting, (considering the warriors have never got a wooden spoon) but clubs run around cheating now, god knows what they would do if it meant avoiding relegation. The NRL would never have the balls to dump a glamour club down a grade if they were caught. Especially as plenty of them do various borderline things. But it would create more player movement, as the team going down wouldn’t have the cash to pay any of their good players no more.

    Actually, this year wouldn’t have been that fun, the Newcastle knights were destined for last after about round 3, them being booted and replaced with the Central Coast / North Sydney Bears (or whoever) would be mildly interesting, but not really.

    And as jsmoove says, you'd have to cut the NRL roster to about 23 players (leaving U20s as your backups, maybe push it to U21) to create players available for a 2nd tier comp.
     
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  5. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington DIE FOR TONGA Contributor

    Im not too keen on it. If the Warriors ever get relegated it'll be the death of the club IMO. Kiwis are a fickle bunch. We basically dont support losers. The club would lose the vast majority or its external revenue from gate takings and merchandise. The reduced salary cap would see us field a NZ Residents type team with most of the really talented players disappearing annually to the top teams...
     
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  6. Johnnyray
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    Johnnyray 1st Grade Fringe

    Dude do it.

    When people talk about NRL and how they need to expand game globally for it to survive what they really mean is that NRL first and foremost needs to reduce number of Sydney clubs for it to become a truly world class game especially in Australia where there are currently teams from only four different states or territories compared to the AFL's six. You can't compete with a sport like that if they have the bigger footprint. That was the point behind Super league back in 1990s, where both Packer and Murdoch went hand over fist into trying to achieve just that. It was only because they end up fighting among themselves for control of the sport through television rights is reason why it was never as successful as it should of been. Personally though if they were going to introduce a two tier system to NRL, I would like to see things turn into NFL, where you would divide the competition into two and have two top divisions running separately and parallel from one another and then in finals have those top teams from each division face off one another to win main prize.

    Though idea may sound completely pointless at first, the idea behind it is that if there were two divisions instead of one in NRL that would mean there would have to be two teams in same marketplace for it be fair and competitive meaning that places like NSW Country, QLD Country, Brisbane and even Western Australia would require two teams. This of course would then require a number of Sydney Clubs to relocate to stay commercially competitive and viable. So let's say for arguments sake (again knowing the lack of first grade talent that's currently out there in NRL, I'm not proposing they should) you expand the competition to another eight teams and then break it into two blocks of twelve, with top eight teams from those two divisions playing each other off in finals.

    Here's an example of how things could look :

    ARL Teams :

    1.) Brisbane City Team - Redcliffe Dolphins
    2.) Qld Country Team - Rockhampton (formerly Cronulla) Sharks
    3.) New Zealand Team - Auckland Vulcans
    4.) Aussie Regional Team 1 - Gold Coast Titans
    5.) Aussie Regional Team 2 - Port Macquire Swashbucklers
    6.) Aussie Regional Team 3 - Fremantle (formerly Manly) Sea Eagles
    7.) Aussie Regional Team 4 - North Sydney Bears (Based in Gosford)
    8.) Aussie Regional Team 5 - Melbourne Storm
    9.) Sydney Team 1 - Canterbury Bulldogs
    10.) Sydney Team 2 - Penrith Panthers
    11.) Sydney Team 3 - West Tigers
    12.) NSW Country Team - Canberra Raiders

    NRL Teams :

    1) Brisbane City Team - Brisbane Broncos
    2.) Qld Country Team - Townsville Cowboys
    3.) New Zealand Team - Wellington (formerly NZ) Warriors
    4.) Aussie Regional Team 1 - Newcastle Knights
    5.) Aussie Regional Team 2 - St George Dragons (Based in Wollongong)
    6.) Aussie Regional Team 3 - Perth Pirates (formerly Western Reds)
    7.) Aussie Regional Team 4 - Central Coast Cossacks
    8.) Aussie Regional Team 5 - Adelaide Rams
    9.) Sydney Team 1 - Parramatta Eels
    10.) Sydney Team 2 - South Sydney Rabbitohs
    11.) Sydney Team 3 - Sydney Roosters
    12.) NSW Country Team - Coffs Harbour Barracuda's

    :happy:
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
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  7. Lord Gnome of Howick MBE
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    Lord Gnome of Howick MBE Warriors 1st Grader

    Or just have 24 teams and have them all play each other once....
     
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  8. Johnnyray
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    Johnnyray 1st Grade Fringe

    That won't work. Too complicated ... ;)
     

  9. Jwoodzy02
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    Jwoodzy02 Warriors Bench Player

    What would happen if a feeder club with their actual name and stuff got promoted? It would be weird and Confusing.
     
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  10. Murraytd
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    Murraytd 1st Grade Fringe

    The beginning of the end for most clubs. I know the foxes' won in the EPL, but that was anomaly. Clubs with pokies, private backers, and large community backing will only grow stronger.
    I promote an opposite, move completely away from professionalism and a greater focus on amateurism.then maybe a promotion relegation.
    the professional error has mostly ruined my enjoyment of sport(drugs, match fixing, lack of integrity, rorting, cash in bags, blah blah blah). I suppose I have to suck it up, as the future is not what I am preaching. Upsets me that the power brokers that control the clubs hide behind excellence and greater player benefits, but the reality is greed drives most decisions in sport, and like commerce they have very little regard for the benefit of the code, only the benefit of their club, and any means to see success.
    Losing interest daily to be fair.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  11. drunk_monk
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    drunk_monk 1st Grade Fringe

    Giving a thumbs up just for this suggestion, if we got the Wellington Warriors I would have eternal chub, ans would be less surprised when we choke\fall from grace in a giant ball of flames every year.
     
  12. Blain
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    Blain 1st Grade Fringe

    Wouldn't work in a salary cap comp IMO. For example, who would want to sign for a club that looks likely to be relegated? Weak clubs would get weaker, and the strong would prosper. Sponsorship would be also affected in a similar way.

    So I wonder what would happen with players contracts if they are relegated? There potentially would be 25 players looking for new clubs after round 24..

    The thought of it is good, but isn't practical.
     
  13. Jay M
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    Jay M Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    I'd prefer two conferences to be honest, as opposed to promotion/relegation. basically set up along geographical lines - i.e. Sydney sides, and non Sydney sides.

    Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane, Titans, Cowboys, Warriors, Newcastle and one other side in the non-Sydney conference (likely the dragons, but if a club relocated - it could be a side outside Sydney as well).

    The others in a second conference.

    You play the teams in your own conference home and away (14 games). And play the teams in the other conference home or away (8 games). Shortening the regular season by 2 games, reducing player burnout etc, potentially opening up time for standalone Origin etc.

    But the big factor for me is it levels the playing field a bit with regards to travel. Sure, the Storm might not have to travel as far as the Warriors every second week, but at least it's somewhat fairer, than the 8-9 Sydney sides who get to spend two thirds of their season within the same city (if not more).

    It wouldn't help the warriors directly - travel schedule would still be crazy and manic, but the sides they play two thirds of the time would all be sides who travel frequently too...

    Promotion/relegation would be the death of the NRL I suspect.
     
  14. InsideBall
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    InsideBall Warriors 1st Grader

    Would it work?

    No, not when you have franchises. And especially not when there's not anything even remotely close to the required depth necessary to allow for it.
     
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  15. Inruin
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    Inruin Walk Them Out

    What if you had 24 teams. Two divisions of 12. NRL and whatever you want to call the other. In each division you would have each team play each other home and away so 22 regular season games and then playoffs. this may allow for stand alone rep weekends and no byes. each team gets funding, say $7mil for NRL and maybe $5 mil for division down so that the gap isn't too large to jump up. Would have to provisions made in contracts, similar to a performance linked pay. So, the contract would be a base that fits under the salary cap of the lower level with incentive bonus that would fit under the upper level if you played NRL. Problem is that you have 24 teams that are fighting for NRL spots and if one or more folds who replaces it. If you dont have that tiered system like in English football where you have multiple divisions with promotion/relegation it probably isn't going to work. Also, over time, areas that once were strong will become very weak and areas that build up will become stronger and deserve two teams. ie: should NZ have two teams, should Melbourne since the population is nearly the same as Sydney's etc.
     
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  16. Dunedin warrior
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    Dunedin warrior 1st Grade Fringe

    All the NRL's funding comes from TV broadcasting, and two teams contribute a large amount us and the bronco's. If either team went down the TV rights would take a massive hit. They would need to establish a 2nd Brisbane and a 2nd Nz team before this could even be considered.
     
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  17. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington DIE FOR TONGA Contributor

    Not true. SKY TVs contribution to the broadcasting rights is a drop in the bucket compared to Nines and Fox...
     
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  18. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    English football represents the many different regional subcultures in England.

    The football team is a huge part of their local identity. So it doesn't matter that their team is complete and utter shite. They love them anyway cause they are their people. (Even tho most of the team speak English as a second language.... Sorry, Factoid Alert). So without this millenniums old regional identity their football league wouldn't exist as it is.

    This is why they can have a comp with teams getting humiliated and their fans not abandoning them, still filling their stadiums year after year.

    The second level league comp down these ways wouldn't have enough fans for a proper brawl, let alone a great atmosphere.

    So I can't see this idea getting off the ground.
     
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  19. fizurg
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    fizurg 1st Grade Fringe

    relegation is like having a draft for players. Our sport is both too big and too small to make the systems work. It would add some excitement for fans but could be disastrous for teams and players. Imagine Newcastle trying to find a decent sponsor to help make them competitive again while at the same time have the threat of relegation over their head.
     
  20. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    They still want the NZ contribution though. The problem for them that Sky is their best bet to the extent they had to threaten to give it away to a free to air channel to get more out of Sky. Also the fact that when the Warriors play it is usually the best crowd of the year, and the Warriors sell more Jerseys.

    There is also the bragging rights to viewer ratings compared with AFL. Without NZ AFL would look much better.