General Discussion What Is Wrong With The Warriors?

Discussion in 'General Warriors Discussion' started by bruce, Aug 9, 2017.



  1. Owner Eric Watson

  2. CEO Jim Doyle

  3. Coach Stephen Kearney

  4. Players

  5. Recruitment

  6. Development

  7. Too many NZ developed players

  8. Too many South Aucklanders

  9. Too many Polynesians

  10. Not enough white players

  11. Not enough Aussies

  12. Club culture

  13. Mt Smart Stadium/Auckland

  14. Lack of leadership

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. bruce
    Posts:
    7,548
    Likes:
    7,509
    Join:
    Sep 1, 2015

    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Hodgson and Whitehead have already been scouted, which is my point, then there is that tall guy Joe Greenwood at the Titans, he isn't exactly setting the game on fire is he?

    Back in the old days any Poms coming down under were guaranteed stars. The rot started when the Warriors signed Betts and Platt.

    Sorry if I sound biased. The Chooms used to set the standard, especially in the 1950's but rugby union is taking their best now even before the NRL gets a chance.

    Too many Kiwis in dismal Warriors - Australian league pundit Paul Kent
    Link has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    The Warriors' problem is simple - they've got too many New Zealanders in the side.

    That is the call from leading Sydney league journalist Paul Kent, who said the development system in New Zealand produced soft players unable to tough it out in the NRL.

    "The fundamental problem, and this will sound absurd, but there are too many Kiwis in the side," Kent said on Fox Sport's NRL 360.


    When co-host Ben Ikin interjected to say the New Zealand factor didn't seem to hurt the All Blacks, Kent said the comparison was erroneous.
    "The All Blacks come through a different junior system to the Warriors, (with a) harder edge. The Warriors...when the game gets tough, they get going."


    Former State of Origin player Ikin found it hard to understand why the Warriors had put up such a lame effort this season.

    "I struggle to get my head around what happened...this is an organisation with quality people almost from top to bottom," he said.

    "(owner) Eric Watson is hugely successful, Jim Doyle the CEO is one of the best in the business who did a lot before he arrived in rugby league, they've got a world class spine, (plus) people of the ilk of Simon Mannering and Ryan Hoffman.

    "I just look at the team play and I'm left scratching my head - there aren't too many good judges in the NRL who didn't have them close to the top four with the people they had assembled."

    Guest panellist James Graham, the great English and Bulldogs forward, was also scratching his head.
    "It's a tough one. On paper their roster is phenomenal. You've seen some of the individual brilliance that some of those players can bring, there's some Origin experience thrown in there with (Jacob) Lillyman and (Ryan) Hoffman...people are a little bit puzzled. Are there too many excuses?," Graham said.

    Doyle has been trying to build a new club by recruiting Kiwis such as Roger Tuivasa-
    Sheck and Tohu Harris who have been developed by Australian clubs."

    Bullshit I say, again, Kiwis have been beating Australians for bloody years. I think Kent really means bros from South Auckland but his editor wouldn't let him.

     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 5
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List

  2. Sledge
    Posts:
    973
    Likes:
    1,383
    Join:
    Apr 10, 2016

    Sledge 1st Grade Fringe

    Link has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    Chris Rattue: Forget Blair nonsense, it's time Eric Watson quit the appalling Warriors mess
    9 Aug, 2017 4:15pm
    4 minutes to read

    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    Roger Tuivasa-Sheck disappointed with the Warriors loss to the Knights. Photosport
    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    Link has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    Sports writer
    This email is not visible to you..no

    This needs to be treated as the big-picture crisis which it is, not the chance for another grandiose, futile player announcement.

    Watson's initially promising rescue/ownership of the Warriors - which means he virtually owns the game in this country - has turned into a hell-hole of a disaster.

    Another run of lame NRL defeats via boring football under the stewardship of Steve Kearney - who should never have been appointed coach in the first place - has the club in such dire trouble that I'd suggest the prognosis is terminal.

    The Warriors haven't just again failed to make the playoffs. They have failed to raise the pulse at all. Most of their scant seven victories have been against other struggling clubs, and even the traditional State of Origin-related surge failed to materialise as interest wanted.

    These poor results have been exacerbated by boring, heavily patterned football, designed by a coach who has translated his stints at methodical Melbourne and Bennett's Brisbane into dross dressed up by the odd Shaun Johnson cameo. In reward for his role as the ineffective jester, Johnson gets to call himself a $1m man.

    They are rocketing towards an audience of two men and a dog watching a dog, and my sadness at this runs as deep as the problems
    I hate to pick on new-ish forward Bunty Afoa, because he's a young bloke devoid of blame. But if the bog standard Afoa represents what the Warriors development programme is all about, they might as well pack up the tent, and let all Kiwi league fans go back to supporting Aussie clubs as many of them still do.

    Yes, I strongly agree that a contingent of players steeled in Australia is vital as other commentators have opined, although recent recruitment lacks the inspiration and insight which brought the likes of Kevin Campion, Steve Price, Micheal Luck and James Maloney to Auckland.

    But the formula should involve a contingent of brilliant locals, something that isn't emphasised enough.

    The Warriors' past included a vein of x-factor - Stacey Jones, Manu Vatuvei, Henry Fa'afili, Francis Meli, Ali Lauitiiti, Sam Rapira, Lance Hohaia, Motu Tony, Nigel Vagana, Jerome Ropati, Ben Matulino, Konrad Hurrell et al. Nowadays those types end up at other NRL clubs.

    You could only watch with horror recently as admirable Mason Lino battled his limitations in first grade, while offering one of the better short kicking games we've ever seen from a Warrior.

    When another halfback Stacey Jones made his debut more than 20 years ago, we all knew it was the start of a potentially brilliant era. Lino? He is just as likely to be playing for Salford in two years time.

    Chief among the sporting crimes has been the hiring of troubled Kieran Foran, who started negotiating with other clubs a few rounds into the current season. Foran's recruitment, to use the term very loosely, came with the stamp of approval from Kearney who - and I still can't believe any head coach would say this - seemed to regard Foran's health as the only issue.

    Yet Kearney, whose brief head coaching record at Parramatta was awful, had the audacity to accuse some of his own players of not trying against Newcastle last week, having plonked the uncommitted Foran and his destabilising influence in their midst in the first place.

    Meanwhile Doyle's blatant policy of recruiting people he knows can produce the odd result - Roger Tuivasa-Sheck was a terrific get. Apart from that, it might lead to fantastic barbecues, but the team gets fried.

    Look at the club under Watson's ownership of late: the Owen Glenn co-ownership disaster, a crazy football advisory board featuring Sir Graham Henry, the ridiculous choice of Kearney over bringing back Ivan Cleary, the Foran disgrace, Johnson's inflated wages.

    Is there anyone who really believes the current mob have any hope of turning this around?

    If Watson sells up, who steps up? Can't answer that, sorry.

    Maybe John Hart, whose underrated directorship under-pinned the eventually successful Cleary coaching era, can be persuaded to help put something together. That's all I can offer - more straw-clutching.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 23
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  3. Hardyman's Yugo
    Posts:
    484
    Likes:
    614
    Join:
    Jun 2, 2017

    Hardyman's Yugo 1st Grade Fringe

    Pretty damning assessment that
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 8
    • List
  4. BeastMode
    Posts:
    3,405
    Likes:
    4,146
    Join:
    Mar 7, 2015

    BeastMode Warriors 1st Grader

    I hate Chris Rattue.

    Rants away for a whole page then ends with no solution.

    The worst kind of journalists around
    ....

    Now if he ended with"sack steve kearney" or "sack em all" then maybe i will give him some credit...
     
    • Funny Funny x 6
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 2
    • List
  5. bruce
    Posts:
    7,548
    Likes:
    7,509
    Join:
    Sep 1, 2015

    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    I thought what he said was sadly very true. I wish it wasn't but it is. I couldn't find anything in there I disagreed with, and I often can with Chris Rattue.
    From a neutral observer too;). Chris Rattue often says things people don't like to hear, so they ignore his points and attack the man. You watch after this and see.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 10
    • List
  6. tajhay
    Posts:
    6,631
    Likes:
    8,332
    Join:
    Mar 30, 2012

    tajhay On Titanic.

    Thats when clubs usually pick up portion of their contracts for them to go elsewhere.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 2
    • List
  7. BeastMode
    Posts:
    3,405
    Likes:
    4,146
    Join:
    Mar 7, 2015

    BeastMode Warriors 1st Grader

    So basically you agree with everything I've been saying then ;)

    It takes a better man to admit when you're wrong. You're clearly a better man.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 1
    • List
  8. Ozwarrior
    Posts:
    488
    Likes:
    698
    Join:
    Nov 8, 2014

    Ozwarrior 1st Grade Fringe Contributor

    Don't know where to post this. Mods move it or delete.

    How has it gone so wrong for the New Zealand Warriors?
    James Matthey
    • Video
    • Image


    Steve: Warriors aren't trying


    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    FORGET Newcastle and forget the Wests Tigers. They might be anchoring the NRL table but they’re not the biggest disappointment in rugby league this year.

    That honour goes to the New Zealand Warriors.

    We know Gold Coast has slipped following its 2016 heroics, the Bulldogs’ attack is woeful, the Tigers have been a basket-case off the field and the Knights have won just four games all season, but still Warriors fans have more reason to cry foul than anyone else.

    Sitting 12th with seven wins from 20 matches, so much more was expected of the men across the ditch. Their spine — comprising the four most important positions on the field in fullback, halfback, five-eighth and hooker — is full of internationals.

    Roger Tuivasa-Sheck became the club’s No. 1 in 2016 after it signed him on a deal reportedly worth more than $800,000 a season. Halfback Shaun Johnson has played more than 20 Tests for the Kiwis, rake Issac Luke boasts more than 30 international caps and guided Souths to a grand final in 2014 and Kieran Foran wears the No. 6 jersey. On paper, it’s one of the strongest spines in the competition.

    That’s a helluva quartet to snare under the constraint of a $7 million salary cap, but their performances haven’t matched the pay cheques.

    Tuivasa-Sheck has largely been impressive at the back and Foran’s impact on the team was noticeable in the early stages before dropping off. But Luke hasn’t come close to replicating the form that made him one of the competition’s leading dummy-halves at the Rabbitohs and Johnson has too often drifted in and out of games.

    A humbling 34-22 loss at home to the Panthers in Round 19 when Penrith’s teenage halfback Nathan Cleary carved them up single-handedly showed just how low the Kiwi club had sunk.

    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    The Warriors haven’t been a happy bunch this year.Source:Getty Images

    “They’ve got Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, they’ve got Issac Luke, they’ve got Kieran Foran, they’ve got Shaun Johnson. The Panthers had Nathan Cleary, a young kid, and he gave them a bath,” Matthew Johns said on the Triple M Grill Team after that loss.

    “The worst rap a club can have is that when players go there, they get worse. Roger was on the cusp of being the best player in the competition and he’s gone there and gone backwards. Issac Luke has gone backwards. Foran was fantastic to start with but now he’s paddling.”

    Life has only got worse since then, losing the next three games. The Warriors last tasted success in their seven-point win over the struggling Bulldogs in Round 16 and on the back of the club’s defeat to bottom-placed Newcastle on the weekend, coach Stephen Kearney accused some players of not trying.

    “There were some guys out there trying very hard and there were some guys that weren’t,” Kearney said. “There were some individuals whose effort was very questionable and in this competition you can’t have that.”

    The Warriors have been missing Johnson, who suffered a knee injury in July, but the rot started well before that. So while it’s a mitigating factor in the club’s late-season slide, it can’t be used as an excuse for the mediocrity of the entire year.

    On NRL 360 last week former Queensland five-eighth Ben Ikin expressed the exasperation plenty of league followers feel when trying to understand the Warriors’ predicament.

    “I struggle to get my head around what’s happened in New Zealand this year,” Ikin said.

    “They’ve got a world class spine, they’ve got people of the ilk of Simon Mannering and Ryan Hoffman (in the back row) and I just look at the team play and I am left scratching my head.

    “There’s not too many good judges in rugby league that didn’t have the Warriors getting close to the top four with the group of people they had assembled.”

    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    Shaun Johnson has been inconsistent.Source:Getty Images

    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    Luke’s best work has been done in a Rabbitohs jersey.Source:Getty Images

    What really boggles the mind is the amount of talent the Warriors have in their under-age set-ups. They’ve won three Holden Cup Under-20 titles in nine years but that talent clearly isn’t being nurtured properly.

    Last week Link has been hidden. Please Register to view.saying the Warriors’ roster, outside of the spine, simply isn’t up to NRL standard, which is the result of poor player development.

    “When you look through the 2017 roster there are a number of players commanding big chunks of (salary) cap space that haven’t delivered true value on their contract — Manu Vatuvei, Ben Matulino, Issac Luke, Jacob Lillyman, Shaun Johnson and Ryan Hoffman to name a few obvious ones,” Budge wrote.

    “Problem is the development has been terrible and that is the key reason why the Warriors haven’t enjoyed more success in recent years. The Warriors have been a development club that simply hasn’t spat out NRL-ready first graders, which is the key way to balance your roster and manage your salary cap.

    “The reality is the Warriors actually haven’t poured enough resources into player development at a lower level. They haven’t recruited the best types of juniors and there have been far too many kids ‘filling Jerseys’ rather than actually being part of the long-term solution.”

    So when the club promotes its locally-grown talent to first grade, the players struggle to make the step up. When it recruits players from other clubs, they don’t get what they paid for. It’s a vicious cycle, and one Warriors fans will desperately hope ends soon.

    Follow Link has been hidden. Please Register to view. on Facebook.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 6
    • List

  9. theleagueguy
    Posts:
    172
    Likes:
    220
    Join:
    May 9, 2015

    theleagueguy Warriors Bench Player

    It's funny how Blair strength is his defensive up the middle our biggest weakness. Which Rattue seems to ignore
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 3
    • List
  10. jonno
    Posts:
    7,829
    Likes:
    6,745
    Join:
    Jul 13, 2014

    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    How has it gone so wrong for the Warriors.

    I've posted these vides before, but the perfectly encapuslate what's wrong with the club atm..

    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.

    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.

    And I don't blame Kata either. He's getting offered contracts and getting picked. Good for him.

    It's the systemic relyance on guys who aren't able to play defense at NRL level that's the problem. It's become a bit of a blind spot for everyone inside the club it would seem.

    This is what I think is wrong with the Warriors.

    Again mods feel free to delete this post if it's too OT...
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 8
    • List
  11. Hardyman's Yugo
    Posts:
    484
    Likes:
    614
    Join:
    Jun 2, 2017

    Hardyman's Yugo 1st Grade Fringe

    That strategy works if a player is going to be in his 20's part way through a contract, but he won't be so the club is potentially signing up to paying someone for 4 years who may only be useful for 2 of them
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 4
    • List
  12. bruce
    Posts:
    7,548
    Likes:
    7,509
    Join:
    Sep 1, 2015

    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Maybe Rattue is anticipating a Doyle special press release and is getting early to balance the equation.
     
  13. Mr Frank White
    Posts:
    1,724
    Likes:
    2,464
    Join:
    May 19, 2012

    Mr Frank White 1st Grade Fringe

    No he means if he retires, or goes to the ESL, we aren't liable for his contract
     
  14. Mr Frank White
    Posts:
    1,724
    Likes:
    2,464
    Join:
    May 19, 2012

    Mr Frank White 1st Grade Fringe

    Nah its spot on.

    SK alluded to it in the presser. Terrible 'habits' all through the grades.
    Which is code for these guys actually can't play footy.
    Kata is actually incapable of reading defense, as is Lisone. Setting up his winger is equally impossible.

    Development and basic skills have been the death of this club, and it extends waay past the coach.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 8
    • List
  15. bruce
    Posts:
    7,548
    Likes:
    7,509
    Join:
    Sep 1, 2015

    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Rattue isn't picking on Blair especially, who might turn out to be a good but over expensive signing.

    He is highlighting the mess this club has got itself into. Doyle might get lucky with the salary cap debacle, FFS Eastwood on $700000:eek:

    We might even fluke a decent performance next year, I say fluke because the cracks in this club are starting to show through Doyle's bullshit.

    However there seems to be little to show progress apart from the luck of the draw on a stuffed up salary cap.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 1
    • List
  16. Mr Frank White
    Posts:
    1,724
    Likes:
    2,464
    Join:
    May 19, 2012

    Mr Frank White 1st Grade Fringe

    Holy Fuck that video is embarrassing, Kata and his inside man leave Ken with a 3 on 1, about 30m from the sideline.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 4
    • List
  17. Sledge
    Posts:
    973
    Likes:
    1,383
    Join:
    Apr 10, 2016

    Sledge 1st Grade Fringe

    Ex-Warriors enforcer Kevin Campion urges Stephen Kearney to find mean streak
    MARVIN FRANCE - 14:38, August 9 2017
    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view. Media has been hidden. Please Register to view. Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    Media has been hidden. Please Register to view.
    Kevin Campion left a lasting impression in just two seasons at the Warriors. - MARTIN HUNTER/STUFF
    Advertisement
    Former Warriors hardman Kevin Campion has urged Stephen Kearney to get ruthless as the coach tries to instil a winning culture at the club.

    While a five-match losing streak has seen the Warriors miss the finals for a sixth-straight season, whether though injuries or a lack of better options, Kearney has been reluctant to swing the axe through his struggling side.

    Veteran hooker Issac Luke has been demoted for Sunday's game against Canberra but, at this stage, he has only been benched and there have been very few examples this year of Kearney sidelining a high-profile player down on form.

    But Campion, who is now based on the Gold Coast, believes a shake-up of the roster is exactly what the club needs.


    Despite only spending two seasons at Mt Smart, the tough-as-teak back-rower achieved cult status amongst the fans and is widely credited for instilling an uncompromising attitude that transformed the Warriors from easy beats to grand finalists in 2002.

    A big part of that process came down to player accountability, regardless of what pay packet they were on.

    "Stephen's only a relatively young coach and he's got some superstars in that side on big money," Campion told Stuff.

    "He's got to make examples, even of his superstars, of those who are not performing. Show them who is boss and what's expected of them in that team.

    "You've got to treat everyone equal in those circumstances, if they're not performing then they go back to reserve grade where they can work their way back into the side. These days all players know that no matter what they're going to get paid, it's not like our day when I had to play 20 games to get $1500 when I first started."

    Campion played 241 first grade across six clubs, winning two premierships at the Broncos in 1998 and 2000, but he still follows the Warriors closely.

    He revealed he spoke to managing director Jim Doyle and former head coach Andrew McFadden about coming on board as a defensive consultant at the start of last season, only for the club to go in a different direction with the hiring of Justin Morgan, who has since been let go.

    "I was really, really excited to come into that role and help out and I think I could've helped 'Cappy' (McFadden) out with a few things," Campion said. "Defence is one of the big things that they obviously need to work on, they struggle week in, week out with it."

    There is a school of thought, particularly across the Tasman, that the Warriors generally perform well when they have a good mix of battle-hardened Australians in the squad and Campion is often cited as the perfect example.

    The 45-year-old was one of seven Australian-born players to play in the 2002 grand final defeat to the Roosters, but he says it is not as simple as bringing in a bunch of Aussies.

    Of the current crop, he sees players that are capable but a team that is severely lacking in trust, both in themselves and the structures in place.

    He advised Kearney to strip it all down and go back to basics.

    "I go back to my Broncos days, we had some exceptional players but we had a really basic gameplan and it hasn't changed at the Broncos for 20 years.

    "They've got the best kick-chase in the competition, they work hard individually and they work hard as a team and that builds confidence.

    "When I got to the Warriors we were always on the rough end of the stick, we were always expected to lose and in the end it just drove and drove us.

    "We built our wins on our defence, we were so solid in the middle and we had a great attitude within our forward pack. We were really hard on our backs when they made mistakes because we were the ones always doing the tackling and it filtered through that it's not acceptable to make mistakes in that side."

    Despite last year's extensive review, which resulted in sweeping changes to the coaching staff, it could be argued that the Warriors have gone backwards.

    Campion was not a fan of replacing McFadden at the time but if he knows one thing, now is not the time for a knee-jerk reaction.

    "I feel for Steve," Campion said. "It's very hard to go over to the Warriors and make your make so hopefully he can hang in there and hopefully they don't make any rash decisions."
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 14
    • List
  18. theleagueguy
    Posts:
    172
    Likes:
    220
    Join:
    May 9, 2015

    theleagueguy Warriors Bench Player

    Kearney & Doyle have different philosophies when it comes to recruitment. Kearney a coach more practical, bring a player in like in Blair fills a need. Doyle is only interested in stars hence why he brought in the 'Kiwi Spine', resigned Shaun Johnson, wanted Taumalolo. What's Maloney to replace Foran. Kearney keep Lino and Hingano have been in the system.
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 1
    • List
  19. bruce
    Posts:
    7,548
    Likes:
    7,509
    Join:
    Sep 1, 2015

    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Sounds about right. Hopefully SK learned from Bennett not to let a muppet manager run the team.
     
  20. beejayhug
    Posts:
    1
    Likes:
    4
    Join:
    Aug 9, 2017

    beejayhug U20's Player

    The Warriors: My opinion



    The main problem with the Warriors: The forwards are too small

    The Warriors have had this problem since 2010, when Captain Steve Price retired and so far, the club has failed to address this crucial problem.


    My solution:

    Fowards

    Find two genuine SIZED props capable of withstanding and controlling the power of the collisions needed in the NRL competition.

    Backs

    Find a stable and capable standoff, find a winger / centre.

    Playmakers

    Hooker, halfback, standoff and fullback, must learn to kick long, must

    learn to kick short, - and stick it in their contract.

    The playmakers must demand the ball to create play and steer the team around the field.

    Playmakers must control the defence.

    The game:

    Hey guys, play “Kiwi football”. Stop this one out, hit ‘em up, get the ball carrier smashed play, it’s boring.


    Aku
     
    • Like/Agree Like/Agree x 4
    • List