General Discussion What Is Wrong With The Warriors?

Discussion in 'General Warriors Discussion' started by bruce, Aug 9, 2017.



  1. Owner Eric Watson

  2. CEO Jim Doyle

  3. Coach Stephen Kearney

  4. Players

  5. Recruitment

  6. Development

  7. Too many NZ developed players

  8. Too many South Aucklanders

  9. Too many Polynesians

  10. Not enough white players

  11. Not enough Aussies

  12. Club culture

  13. Mt Smart Stadium/Auckland

  14. Lack of leadership

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  1. Raurimu Massive
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    Raurimu Massive 1st Grade Fringe

    Dunno if "encouraging" is the right word, more "turning a blind eye to". It's gone back a fair while now, and ended players' careers - just look at Kevin Locke; on the piss constantly when he was supposedly rehabilitating from injury. Not held to account, and you'd have to think there was a lack of support in place.
     
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  2. wallacenz
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    wallacenz Warriors 1st Grader

    With the Warriors roster, a world rep spine and rep forward pack, they will finish 9 wins out of the top 4 and possibly 1 loss off last place. That should ring alarm bells for everyone, fans and the club. This has been a disastrous season.
     
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  3. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    How do you explain Paramata.

    They've got Semi Radradra, Michael Jennings and Frank Pritichard (on the bench) as their rep players. And their coach, Brad Arthur, was turned down by the club twice in favor of Kearney and Stuart, before they accepted him back from Manly as a caretaker coach.

    This season they have the 7th best attack, and the 9th best defense. But yet here they are in 4th.

    How much of this comp is just dumb luck?

    I think the reason we suck is because we are playing like everything is set in stone and certain. When in reality your luck can turn at any time and you can always get beaten by a team who's going at 100, even when you're well ahead on the scoreboard, if you button off before the final whistle.

    If we eliminate these losses where we are looking good to win, it will boost the confidence of the side no end and solve a lot of the other problems at the club.

    If you look at our last quarter tries, for and against.

    Opposition teams scored 30% of their tries against us in the last 20 mins,, and we scored only 22% of our tries in the last 20 mins.

    This is the key stat that tells why fans are leaving the club. The team scored more in the last 20 mins only 5 times this season. Rounds 5 & 6, 13, 14 & 17.

    And we were outscored by two or more tries 5 times in the final quarter, (we score 2 more once against the titans in round 5).

    So when the score is tight and edge of the seat time comes around we're only a 22% chance of winning the game. We all feel this when we're watching, and we all hate it with a passion.

    I don't know how you get the team to play well down the final stretch and close out games properly, but if the coaching staff don't fix this next season this club might not have any fans left for 2019. The heart attack moments are just way too often and way to predictable for any club to survive..

    Us fans are forced to harden off and stop caring..
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
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  4. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    How about inconsistent intensity? Against Manly every time there there was some brilliant play the whole team lifted, for a while. Then the intensity would drop off. That isn't the coach, that is the top two inches in probably half the team. We are lucky we don't have the spoon.
     
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  5. Worried2Death
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    Worried2Death 1st Grade Fringe

    It's pretty much the consensus across the NRL that the last 10-20 mins is where you beat the Warriors, always has been. Who knows, Kearney might be onto something with this new totally conservative mindset, when and if he gets some better troops to implement it. None of us can do anything about it short of boycotting Mt Smart and the Jerseys. The next jersey should have a bloody target on it, or a troll face with a tongue.

    Until things improve the only way to follow this team without actually going fukn nuts is to just embrace the comedy. You can only get sledged so much before you give up and start joining in the lols of our epic capitulations. The club's got a huge mountain to climb, it could take years to restore any credibility with the wider sports public.

    This old meme from last weekend's Sea Eagles forum game thread:

    Manly: "Surely not even the Warriors can Warrior this up from here"

    Warriors: "Hold my beer"
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  6. wallacenz
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    wallacenz Warriors 1st Grader

    There will always be one team that over performs, and has results go their way. They still have to put themselves in that position though and Para look pretty good, they might have a bright future. The Warriors with their roster should have been at least top 8.. they are bottom 4, thats not bad luck, its just bad.

    As for the coach, Kearney and Stuart are pretenders, it really is amazing how these guys keep getting first grade gigs. Stuart got 15 years worth of coaching from beating the Warriors in the grand final in his first season.
     
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  7. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    I think the inconstant intensity comes from either believing we've won and buttoning off or believing victory is impossible and buttoning off.

    They don't seem to fight like anything could happen at any time... Which would be awesome if they did... They look like they get mentally stuck..
     
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  8. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    I disagree.
    I think there are some players with a distinctly lazy attitude. They do just enough to get by in training, and have done just enough to get a contract as well. They are blessed with natural physique and skill, but are just plain lazy. So when they get motivated by their team mates they are competitive, but when the motivation needs to come from within they revert to being lazy.
    Players like that can only survive as a minority in a team, because the others can both motivate and cover for them.
    When they are more than half the club can kiss its arse goodbye, even if they have Heyzeuss as coach, let alone Kearney.
    All they need on top of that is a distracted owner and a manager who thinks bullshit works and you have the Titanic.
    I would love to be proven wrong tomorrow though, but all my money is on the Tigers by 12 plus.
     
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  9. Worried2Death
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    Worried2Death 1st Grade Fringe

    If they're mentally stuck, they are just that - stuck. It's a hugely difficult thing to overcome, you can't dial the top 2 inches midweek to "don't be stuck".

    I can recall maybe 3 seasons over 21 years that they've consistently been able to finish over the top of the opposition in the crucial last 20 mins. The rest of the time, regardless of how obvious this pattern is to everyone from Steve Price to Ryan Hoffman to the Mt Smart Joker, the opposition KNOW we're vulnerable at the death, and our players KNOW THAT THEY KNOW THAT. So they simply take it to another level, passes stick and unlikely plays come off, and self-doubt inhibits our ability to react.

    No sports psychologist will ever talk these guys into reversing this apparent psychological curse - it will take the right mix of Pro's and Bro's to one day refuse to buy into it any more on the field. They'll do it ONCE. Then again next week, and so on until it becomes a habit that casts a shadow of doubt in the opposition's team psyche and the curse will be broken.

    Just my opinion, and I'm probably being Captain Obvious, but until this process eventuates, we're stuck here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
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  10. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    For me there are two main causes of laziness, believing effort isn't necessary to get results, or believing results are impossible.. Either belief will cause a person to be less inclined to break a sweat...
     
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  11. Salatape
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    Salatape 1st Grade Fringe

    It was never going to be fixed in only one season but maybe just maybe SK could have sent the message across that he isn't fucking around and poor effort/performance will lead to reserve grade. Instead it's the same old story every single week. For all the problems that rugby league has in NZ as far as development and funding goes I just don't understand how former champions and origin players like RTS, Luke, Foran, Hoffman, Lillyman etc can just under perform week in and week out. It's not like the current team has no talent. Spine heavy and unbalanced sure but 7 wins out of 23??? What a piss take. Top 4 was never going to happen with this squad makeup but we should have been knocking on the door for top 8.

    All the stories from Former Players about training and work ethic at the club says it all really. Not to have a go at him but a player like Simon Mannering should be the bare minimum of what is expected at the club as far as effort and professionalism goes but for our players it seems to be the gold standard.
     
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  12. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    The best cure for someone who's mentally stuck is a change of scenery..

    Maybe they could re-decorate the Mt?;)
     
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  13. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    With white paint
     
  14. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    Yep that sounds good.

    And then put up pictures of at least 15 brand new ex-warriors...
     
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  15. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    At the Crusaders if a player slacks off in training the others give it to him big time. At the Warriors they cannot do that, because most are slackers from the sounds of it.
     
  16. brightman
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    brightman 1st Grade Fringe

    Link has been hidden. Please Register to view.

    Not sure what to make of this, but I will say that personally I believe Fusitua showed he's the better FB also easily managed to chime into the line and make breaks far more fluidly. I've never really rated RTS that highly outside of the Roosters set-up, none of his performances for the Kiwis stand-out and his Warriors efforts are his to own.

    If RTS left in 2019 then Fus would provide far better value and the squads depth can be further bolstered
     
  17. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    RTS has earned his money here. If he leaves he can go with is head high.
     
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  18. Sledge
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    Sledge 1st Grade Fringe

    The Warriors will have their official awards in a couple of weeks, but we've jumped the gun to get in first, with Stuff's two Warriors reporters, David Long and Marvin France selecting their best and worst moments of the 2017 season.

    DAVID LONG'S AWARD WINNERS

    Player of the season - Roger Tuivasa-Sheck
    It's true that Tuivasa-Sheck still isn't having the impact he had at the Roosters, but he's been the Warriors player with the most x-factor this season and watching his runs is worth the price of admission alone. He's also grown into the captaincy role.

    Rookie of the year - Isaiah Papalii
    There hasn't been much to celebrate over the back end of this season, but Papalii has given fans hope that the club has produced a forward who could be a superstar.

    Disappointing player of the year - Solomone Kata
    Last year the centre scored 15 tries in 21 games, this year he's scored just four in 18. Tries aren't everything, but it highlights he's made less of an impact in games this season.

    Best moment - Try from Ryan Hoffman against Knights
    Back in round one, when there was still hope, Hoffman managed to catch a pass from Ata Hingano that was behind him, spun out of a tackle and scored the match winning try in the 73rd minute.

    Worst moment - Shaun Johnson's knee injury against Panthers
    When he limped off the field in the 62nd minute of this round 19 game, that was the season over moment for the Warriors.

    Best game - Warriors 28 Broncos 10
    Yes, there should be a big, fat asterisk next to this result as the Broncos were missing a number of players because of State of Origin, but the Warriors were able to open up and show what they're made of, scoring nice tries and playing with flair.

    Worst game - Knights 26 Warriors 10
    The Knights look set to pick up the wooden spoon for the third straight year, but they looked like world beaters in this game. The Warriors were just dreadful, they played without passion and barely made an effort.

    Best decision made by the club - signing Kieran Foran
    OK, so it didn't work out as everyone hoped, but that wasn't Foran's fault, rather the forwards who didn't give him enough of a platform. He brought a level of professionalism to the club that could have a lasting effect.

    Worst decision made by the club - The treatment of Tuimoala Lolohea
    Throughout his time at the Warriors he was constantly thrown into different positions and never given time to settle. Giving him a release may come back to haunt the Warriors, while it leaves them lacking depth in the halves next year.

    Expectations for 2018
    It does depend on who else they can sign for next year, but given that they're losing Foran, it could be a season where there's some progression made, but not enough to get into the top eight.

    MARVIN FRANCE'S AWARD WINNERS

    Player of the season - Simon Mannering
    For all the effort he puts in year after year, Mannering deserves far more from those around him - not that you'd ever hear him complain. The tireless back-rower has again been the Warriors' most reliable performer and even improved his attack.

    Rookie of the year - Ata Hingano
    Started six games in the halves and improved every time. Plenty to work on but recent performances against Raiders and Rabbitohs offered a small ray of light for fans to cling to.

    Disappointing player of the year - Kieran Foran
    Started strong (see below) but struggled to find his best as the season progressed. Can't blame the club for taking the risk and injuries didn't help, but the high-profile signing failed to meet expectations.

    Best moment - Foran's dream debut
    When Foran sliced through to score against the Titans before combining with good mate Shaun Johnson to set up the match-winner, it provided a glimpse of what could be. He backed it up the following week against the Eels but unfortunately, well, you know how it ends...

    Worst moment - Second half against Panthers
    Not a single moment but rather a collection of defensive blunders that morphed into one huge disaster. Up 28-6 at halftime, the Warriors collapsed easier than a house of cards and by the end, it was not even close.

    Best game - Warriors 14 Roosters 13
    The Warriors displayed a defensive steel rarely seen since the grand final year of 2011. They ultimately won the game off a late, bold penalty from the referee, but it was the resilience on their goal line that put them in the position to capitalise.

    Worst game - Warriors 14 Dragons 30
    A week after the meltdown in Penrith, the Warriors had every reason to come out firing in Hamilton. Instead, they produced a limp display as the visitors inflicted a physical beat down.

    Best decision made by the club - Watson standing down
    I'm clutching here but hopefully UK-based owner Eric Watson's decision to replace himself with Jim Doyle and appoint a new CEO will give the club more direction. Apart from selling up, which may still happen, what else can they try?

    Worst decision made by the club - Ignoring the pack
    It's all good splashing the cash on the spine but the Warriors ignored the engine room at their peril. Even before the recent injury crisis they were regularly outmuscled upfront. They have targeted forwards for next next year but have also allowed their best prop, Ben Matulino, to leave.

    Expectations for 2018
    The Warriors are a long-term fix, so not high. Forget top-eight but staying in contention until the end of the season would be a step in the right direction.

    - Stuff
     
  19. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    I cannot agree with that at all. He was the worst decision and it might be felt for some time because it took the focus away from other things that need attention.
    David Long has answered his own point. Foran was a complete waste of time.
    I prefer Chris Rattue's awards.
    Chris Rattue's 'alternative' 2017 Warriors awards
    With yet another disappointing Warriors campaign drawing to a close, Chris Rattue hands out some alternative end-of-season awards.

    Player of the Year
    Shaun Johnson gets the nod - that's how bad things have got. Erratic? Yes. Central to the problems? Possibly. But at least he can make boring-ball mildly interesting to watch.
    Most Ungrateful
    Kieran Foran used the club to get his life back in order, then scarpered for the Bulldogs. Thanks awfully, Kieran.
    Most Promising
    No award this year. There wasn't anything promising about the Warriors this season.
    The Simon Mannering Award for Endless Quality Service
    Simon Mannering (he now gets to keep the trophy).
    Monopoly Award (for best roll-the-dice board game)
    Owner Eric Watson became the chairman early last year, and quit the job this year. Huh?
    Best Try
    Outgoing CEO and incoming chairman Jim Doyle found hope during the current eight game losing streak: "There are different levels of disappointment - our biggest loss this year is by 16 points. In the past we've lost by 40."
    Top Stats
    These may not be the numbers which count most, but Johnson is near the top of the NRL try assist ladder, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck likewise in all run metres, and Mannering will finish the season as the second top tackler in the NRL. Mind you, Mannering is wearing himself out trying to cover all the cracks.
    Best Quote
    "I hold Melbourne very, very dear to my heart" - departing Aussie Ryan Hoffman, as the Warriors hurtled towards a record losing streak.
    Best Bro-mance
    Johnson and Foran couldn't speak highly enough of each other. No other NRL pairing came close - a rare victory for the club.
    Best Win
    Against Parramatta, in April, with Foran - in just his second game - getting virtually all the credit. "Suddenly the Warriors are a far different proposition" one writer enthused. Parramatta turned out to be a pretty good side. Most of the Warriors' other scant wins were against duds.
    Best Lowie-ism
    Famous old coach Graham Lowe opined: "They have never quite got the jigsaw puzzle right. They have to make sure you have a coach who will get the players to play better than they think they can play."
    Supporters Award
    Goes to those loyal (although dwindling) number of supporters at Mt Smart Stadium, for sticking with this mob. Yes, that's what supporters should do. But they have endured a lot over the years.

     
  20. brightman
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    brightman 1st Grade Fringe

    Perhaps but if he leaves because it's too tough to achieve the vision he was sold on then that points to his character and elevated SJ even higher in my estimation..
     
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