General Discussion What Is Wrong With The Warriors?

Discussion in 'General Warriors Discussion' started by bruce, Aug 9, 2017.



  1. Owner Eric Watson

  2. CEO Jim Doyle

  3. Coach Stephen Kearney

  4. Players

  5. Recruitment

  6. Development

  7. Too many NZ developed players

  8. Too many South Aucklanders

  9. Too many Polynesians

  10. Not enough white players

  11. Not enough Aussies

  12. Club culture

  13. Mt Smart Stadium/Auckland

  14. Lack of leadership

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  1. Aceh
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    Aceh U20's Player

    Parra are a shining example of everyone giving 100% and nothing less than that. On paper and with all the issues they've had, there is no way they are top four or eight. I like the coach, he's no nonsense, no frills, no excuses. There's no bullshit higher order "Process" to unravel or understand. What you see is what you get.

    Let's not forget how low they sunk. Wooden spoon in 2012 and 2013 yet Arthur managed to steady the ship with same amount of wins as The Warriors in 2014 (12) and 2015 (9). Last year the rebuild looked on target, he had them looking like top 4 before the shit hit the fan mid season losing Foran, Peats, Paulo and Watmough with the salary cap scandal. Yet despite this and injury to key players this year the hard nosed no nonsense approach has turned the club around.

    F*** SK is taking us backwards. "Not enough players of NRL standard" is a cop out, Mannering reflecting on his time said he seriously struggled in his first year, wasn't up to the "standard" and "barely made it to the end of the year" Stephen Kearney said in his own playing days there were so many more gifted players around him who never made it, his work ethic got him through.

    Yes our recruitment is crap, we have a policy of signing players with a past instead of a future. I can understand some of the reasoning behind wanting Adam Blair but at the money they are talking he will be up there with the worst signings we've ever made. The money he will suck out of our cap over four years is just unforgivable!

    A team is made up of many parts, the salary cap insures those parts include fringe NRL players and journeymen, solid toilers and future stars some with more potential and promise than others. The minute your own coach gives up on you (eat your heart out Nathan Ross) well it's time to go.

    SK needs to remember he only has 10.4 million dollars to play with and not the 104 million he'd like. He better not f*** it up in 2018
     
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  2. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    How can we get this message to Doyle?
     
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  3. brightman
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    brightman 1st Grade Fringe

    put it in the post ol' dog, the address is:

    Cork'n' Bottle
    1917 Carlaw Park
    Memory Lane..

    :D
     
  4. Khaboom
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    Khaboom Warriors Bench Player

    Let's have a 10 Commandments for club culture. Spell it out, nothing vague, let's know what is demanded and who is responsible. Let's not have to listen to process-crap week after week, please.
     
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  5. Miket12
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    Miket12 Warriors 1st Grader

    Commandment #1:
    Thou shall never mention The Process for fear of being stoned (no, Brodene, that doesn't mean V and pain killers).
     
  6. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Chris Rattue: The hole is too big - time to close the failing Warriors down
    http://www.nzwarriors.com/threads/what-is-wrong-with-the-warriors.58476/page-17
    A famous letter from the Mt Albert club to Aussie league bosses was the spark which led to the formation of the Warriors.

    Here's' another letter, to the NRL. The Warriors are detrimental to the game in this country, with no chance of rising from the ashes. The dye is cast, the future hopeless. It's time to shut down the club down, and let other NRL clubs and Aussie-based Kiwi stars blossom on this side of the Tasman again.

    The insurmountable problems for the Warriors includes these: The best local players won't go there anymore, and the wider audience has gone. There will never be enough Australian players - those capable of turning the club around - willing to risk their careers here. The party, if there ever was a party, is over, as another ridiculously bad season drags to an end.

    Sadly, the Warriors are in terminal decline, but will be allowed to dawdle on, wrecking dreams, sucking up the oxygen.
    Significantly, owner Eric Watson - who was bullish when he took over as chairman early last year - has quit the post and is willing to sell the club.

    It was also no surprise to read the Herald on Sunday claim that captain Roger Tuivasa-Sheck may leave the club when his three-year contract expires next season. Warriors CEO Jim Doyle sold the former Roosters fullback a dream - Tuivasa-Sheck could help lead a league revolution in New Zealand. But RTS has been powerless to halt the decline and instead become part of the madness.

    There are revolutions at the Warriors for sure - called ever decreasing circles. It's a crying shame.

    The Warriors were set up for three primary reasons: to give local fans a professional club to follow, provide a great route into the Australian competition for the best local talent, and to capitalise on the new audience already uncovered by television coverage of the old Winfield Cup. What on earth could go wrong? Absolutely everything, as it turned out.

    Here's a question: If Sonny Bill Williams had gone to the Warriors, would he have ever become the Sonny Bill Williams he turned out to be? Answer: Possibly, because he was that talented, but possibly not.

    Just as importantly, would Jesse Bromwich, Issac Luke, Alex Glenn, Tohu Harris, Sam Kasiano, Adam Blair, Jason Nightingale, Shaun Kenny-Dowall etc. etc. have all made it as stars in the NRL had they started off at the Warriors. Answer: No chance.

    Here's another one: How would Shaun Johnson be regarded had he gone to a club like Manly or Melbourne or Brisbane? Answer: An NRL superstar, a potential all-time great, rather than the befuddled magician who remains at the Warriors.

    Auckland has proved too much of a comfort zone for most players, after floating through the junior ranks. Simon Mannering - recruited out of schoolboy rugby union in Nelson- is simply a rare exception to the home grown rule.

    I have followed and loved rugby league for five decades, initially fired by the exploits of the 1971 Kiwis, and drawn in by Des White's atmospheric, croaky-voiced radio commentaries of club games.

    The 1970s turned into tough times for league, but it's hard to remember the game being in a sadder state than right now.

    There is so much rot in the Warriors woodwork they will never build a squad which can win enough games in Australia to challenge for a title. Endless mismanagement has turned what should have been a jewel in the crown of New Zealand sport into its biggest single failure, a hopeless NRL straggler.

    Rugby continues to leave an inviting gap in Auckland, and the Warriors continue to find a hundred different ways not to take it. The trouble is, the hole is so deep now, they will never get out.

    So let the club slide into oblivion.

    There are plenty of Australian clubs willing to host games in New Zealand, and those matches can replace the Warriors as a league presence and give Kiwi sports fans a smorgasbord of NRL games to watch live.

    If each club put in a special effort over here, kids and other fans could have more contact with their heroes than currently occurs with a local team.

    The only other option I can see is relocating the Warriors to Australia while still playing "home" games in New Zealand. Finding a location would be the tricky part, because Sydney is over-stocked with NRL clubs. But it's a concept worth considering. As for the Auckland-based Warriors, the game is up. It's a dead-set tragedy.
     
  7. snake77
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    snake77 Warriors 1st Grader

    That Rattue article came up on my NZHerald app as breaking news. WTF it's not news its an opinion piece. It's written from a guy who likes to stir up debate, putting it up on the banner as breaking news is just click bait.

    The NRL taking away the clubs license = Breaking News
    The club going broke, owner walking away, NRL admit a new team = Breaking News

    Someone from the media fed up with watching the club and feels closing it = Breaking News

    He even uses the news of RTS may look to Australia. Even if we were winning and he was the Dally M player of the year he'd be silly to say sign me up. He should say he may look to Australia to keep his options open. Even then that article says he was sold a vision, yeah he probably was but he also said he wanted to return home for family reasons.

    Rattue was singing the clubs praises 2011 and the years preceding it when we were going alright making the finals and the 20s were going well. He'd often write how we were getting a lot of the decent teenagers as they can play on TV every second week compared to the traditional first 15 play at your schools. He is also part of the problem he like a lot of people got suckered into the under 20s success and though that would grow into first grade success.

    I haven't read all of this thread I scanned the first few pages a while back but have been a bit busy. Chances are it is what has been listed in a lot of other threads.

    • Coaching
    • Development Systems
    • Can't play for 80 minutes
    • Forward pack to small
    • Backs not fast/agile more big and powerful
    • Game management
    • Defence

    To be honest it is probably a combination of all of these and probably more.

    Closing the club down is alright for us frustrated fans but from the media is more click bait to feed off the frustration and the negativity around the club. His opinion would be better if he offered fixes or how things should be turned around. He probably doesn't know enough for that and it doesn't get the hits.

    Besides doesn't he know we are about to go into the best pre-season ever.;) Had to throw that in there to lighten things up.
     
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  8. Salatape
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    Salatape 1st Grade Fringe

    Does anyone know if the club hands out fines for lateness to training/meetings etc?
     

  9. ttkk19
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    ttkk19 1st Grade Fringe

    pretty sure they get fined, they used to make players dye their hair as well to try and humiliate them but it ended up becoming a fashion trend
     
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  10. WarriorBall
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    Opinion: Patience required to fix woeful Warriors

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    Thank goodness that's over.

    For the past couple of months the end of season couldn't come quick enough for the Warriors as they free-fell down the ladder with a club-record nine-straight losses.

    Fans are no doubt hurting and embarrassed by what they see but the sad reality is this was always going to happen with the roster they have.

    It won't be much better next year either.

    It seems everyone is demanding instant action. Someone needs to pay for a terrible year but in all reality that won't fix this mess. Many people responsible for the Warriors troubles have already left while others have seen the error of their ways and are best placed to fix things.

    Steps are already being taken to improve the club's fortunes - problem is patience is needed to see that materialize.

    One of the biggest problems with the Warriors is the inability for fans to look objectively at the quality of their roster. So many fans talked up the 2017 roster as one of the best in club history - presumably because of the all-star Kiwi spine. But in this competition you need more than that to be competitive. A good spine can't win without a decent forward pack laying the platform or serviceable backs capable of finishing try-scoring movements and holding out the opposition when they don't have the ball.

    The Warriors roster this year had a good spine - capable of playing exciting football if [and a BIG if] they were given a strong platform - but there were glaring holes through the remainder of the side. Forwards Jacob Lillyman, Ryan Hoffman and Ben Matulino (whose knees are not great) are past their prime. Well past it actually. The younger forwards like Sam Lisone, Albert Vete, Charlie Gubb and Bunty Afoa are still refining their game - too many errors, too many penalties conceded and not good enough defensively just yet.

    Issac Luke is not the type of hooker to make a forward pack go well (think Cam Smith) but rather a hooker that takes advantage of a strong pack. He was not likely to standout in this Warriors side. Nathaniel Roache was one player to impress - but for injuries he might have really put pressure on Luke to retain his starting spot.

    That leaves the likes of Simon Mannering, Bodene Thompson, Ligi Sao and James Gavet. Gavet over-performed based on his contract and Mannering gave his usual classy service but the others were victims of being part of a pretty bland pack that struggled to bend the line, create second-phase play or even really stand up and take it to most opposition sides over 80 minutes.

    In the backs - only the serviceable Blake Ayshford and skipper Roger Tuivasa-Sheck went close to fulfilling their expected performance. David Fusitua showed plenty of promising signs but went missing at crucial times too. Ken Maumalo had some strong games carrying the ball but has way too many limitations to bank on being a reliable first grader while Solomone Kata had a shocking year.

    The signing of Kieran Foran failed miserably. Thankfully the well-documented off-field issues only cost him the first couple of games and he appeared to at least keep that aspect of his game in order. His body never looked fully healthy though and he had minimal impact on the side's performance. I don't buy too much into the impact he might have had on the younger players because he also was a road-block into first grade for Ata Hingano and Mason Lino. Hingano looked a fairly similar player late in the season as the one that started the year in the number six jumper. He has promise but will need time.

    A number of players will leave the club now while only Tohu Harris and Leivaha Pulu have committed to joining the place. There will be a couple more props and one more back at least to join them - we wait eagerly for news around who those players might be but one thing is for sure - they won't be enough to make the Warriors a title contender and maybe even a top eight side next year.

    Coach Stephen Kearney is going to gut this roster and assemble a dominant forward pack over the next couple of seasons. Then he will look to try and keep the majority of the spine together and add the right balance to the back-line. None of this can be done in one off-season. It takes until contracts expire to move players on. People say contracts mean nothing in sport - that can certainly be the case if a player wants out but it is impossible for a club to get rid of a player and get that cap space back unless they find someone prepared to take it off their hands.

    A criticism I've heard constantly about the Warriors under Kearney is that they aren't playing with flair and that fans could tolerate a team losing but at least trying to play attractive football. That might be the case but it won't speed up the process of getting a competitive outfit. Kearney's way will at least help weed out those that can't adjust and speed up the rebuild.

    I sympathise with frustrated and impatient fans. It has been a long time since the Warriors were competitive but trying to make a leap from also-rans to premiership contenders in an off-season has brought about the six seasons of failure. This time around the Warriors are being methodical and doing the rebuild the right way but it is going to take another year of struggles before the improvements will fully be seen.
     
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  11. Aceh
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    Aceh U20's Player

    This report by Dale Budge has me confused........I thought all the rumors were around Kearney and Kata's Aunty?

    Based on this defeatist attitude why don't we put up the white flag, find the long lost key to the trophy cabinet, prepare it for the wooden spoon in 2018 and roll our cash over to 2019 to purchase the Storm off Bellamy?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  12. BeastMode
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    BeastMode Warriors 1st Grader

    4 years, $2.4M for a 32 year old prop???!!!!!!!!!

    What the fuck is wrong with this club???
     
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  13. Mr Frank White
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    I know, i mean we could have got Taumalolo..
     
  14. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    That has to come back and bite us on the bum. Same as it will for the Cowboys.
     
  15. Sledge
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    Sledge 1st Grade Fringe

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    Chris Rattue: Blair and Beale perfect targets as the fans finally turn on the Warriors
    6 Sep, 2017 11:00am
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    New Kiwis captain Adam Blair gets a much warmer reception from coach David Kidwell than he has from Warriors fans. Photo / Photosport
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    No matter that a club which has had too many owners, chief executive, coaches, first grade players and methods repeatedly aimed a gun at a foot, and would happily blow their kneecaps off afterwards.

    From the outset, it has been a chapter of sometimes comical errors, from the sunny day the inaugural coach John Monie blew a huge lead by sending on an illegal replacement which saw the Warriors' first win turn into their first public embarrassment. Wins and cock-ups have been running neck and neck ever since.

    Monie made light by turning up to training the next week with a dunce's hat on and the cone has been metaphorically passed on, from generation to generation, waiting menacingly in the background even when it appeared the club had hit the good times.

    Up it popped again last year, when chief executive Jim Doyle stretched credibility so far with the signing of a dishevelled and injured Kieran Foran that breaking point was inevitable.

    It was such an outlandish Hail Mary play that Doyle's reputation was always going to rise or fall on it, totally. Foran has gone, and so has Doyle from the day-to-day running of the club.

    Up step Adam Blair and Gerard Beale, two more questionable signings, as perfectly-timed lightning rods for the fans' fury, derision and despair after another dud season.


    There are a few believers left, if you scroll through the social media comments, but they are swamped by the realists.

    The Warriors need hardened props - as Kiwi great Tawera Nikau pointed out this week - but Blair is over the hill, and plays more like a part second rower. Beale is a decent but average NRL utility back, and no game changer.

    The fans have unloaded on social media, and rightly so. They know, for starters, that players only come to Auckland because they get "overs", ie more money than they are worth because the Warriors are desperate.

    The Warriors face something far more problematic than their own incompetence now. The All Blacks are playing a brand of rugby that thrills the masses, league often looking like a game played in shackles by comparison.

    Somehow, rugby league has stolen the very kick-and-clap moniker it used to beat rugby union over the head with, the bar raising Storm playmaker Cooper Cronk operating with the brave-but-soulless precision of a data gobbling robot. Johnathan Thurston and his crackling laughter is a rare beast, and maybe a disappearing one.

    About the only advantage left for the Warriors is their changing line of snazzy Jerseys - the All Blacks are hampered by their own brand in that regard, the sombre kit hardly a natural winner with kids. They can ride out that anomaly though, when they play with all the colours of a rainbow.
     
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  16. gpred
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    gpred 1st Grade Fringe

    The roots of my love of Rugby League go back to it being a better game to watch. As pointed out here, dull Rugby union is now more exciting than the Warriors as a spectacle. That's scary for the future of the club.
     
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  17. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    This is what he actually wrote
    I don't agree with Rattue on that. The All Blacks were pretty shite in the second half of the first test against the Wallabies, although they at least were giving it a go. That might be what Rattue is on about. It does look like Kearney is coaching the flair out of them.
     
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  18. gpred
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    gpred 1st Grade Fringe

    Yeah, I agree with you that the All Blacks are bit shite at times. The trouble is even at their worst at the moment they are better to watch than our Warriors under Kearney. That never used to be the case.
     
  19. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    The Warriors haven't had a second half like theAll Blacks did in Sydney. Just imagine the wailing if they had.
     
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  20. Pozza
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    Pozza 1st Grade Fringe

    Except for the 2nd half against Penrith. Think that's when the rot set in
     
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