General Discussion What Is Wrong With The Warriors?

Discussion in 'General Warriors Discussion' started by bruce, Aug 9, 2017.



  1. Owner Eric Watson

  2. CEO Jim Doyle

  3. Coach Stephen Kearney

  4. Players

  5. Recruitment

  6. Development

  7. Too many NZ developed players

  8. Too many South Aucklanders

  9. Too many Polynesians

  10. Not enough white players

  11. Not enough Aussies

  12. Club culture

  13. Mt Smart Stadium/Auckland

  14. Lack of leadership

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  1. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE Contributor

    And the second half against the Raiders. Warriors are the worst second half team in the comp lol. All Blacks are the exact opposite. Silly to poke holes in the All Blacks over one half of footy. And lets not forget, they still won the game...
     
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  2. Pozza
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    Pozza 1st Grade Fringe

    Winning games that's an interesting concept. We might try it one day
     
  3. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    The All Black defence was shite in that second half, but they did throw the ball around. If the had played like Kearney wanted they would have closed the game down at half time.
     
  4. Johnnyray
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    Johnnyray 1st Grade Fringe

    Yeah, cool dude, did I say that ? Did I say any of that ? Go read what I wrote again and then you can comment.

    The sex thing isn't my issue. I don't care who has had sex with or who's involved and who fuck is watching. I wouldn't care that he once had entire team around to his place, smoking cigarette, watching him have sex with her while they all took turns blowing smoke on his balls. Like you said as long as it's consensual that's none of our concern and isn't. Where it is our concern is that he did all this on the company's dime, during work hours. You just don't do that especially not if you're supposed to be a professional athlete playing for professional football team. That like it or not, there is certain standard you must adhere to and take responsibility for not only as player but also out of respect for your teammates. He didn't do that and that's what pisses me off is reasons behind why he didn't do that speaks volumes about current culture of this club, where as I've stated before, it seems there are just too many players there who think that they can just do what they like, when they like and can get away with it. That too many players treat this team as joke and are all laughing at us fans as result. That's thing that really should fuck you off about this whole sex drama. Not what he's done ( -because honestly, he himself hasn't done anything) but how much history behind it speaks about wider issues and wider problems that this team still faces going forward. This is sixth year we have failed to reached finals. Since then we also have had four head coaches, three CEOS and soon two owners. That is all because of the culture of this club. Something needs to change and I don't see much happening that will when we still won't do anything to address entrenched attitudes that are still so obviously there inside this club . That's what fucks me off most as a fan ... :bag:
     
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  5. Naumaifooty
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    Naumaifooty NSW Cup Player

    Kevin Locke
    Glenn Fisiahi
    Omar Slaihmankel
    Brad Abbey
    Viliame Lolohea
    Bill Tupou
    Peta Hiku
    Dylan Collier
    Adam Henry
    Ngani Laumape
    Konrad Hurrell
    Siautonga Likiliki
    Sosaia Feki
    Carlos Tuimavave
    Isaac John
    Jordan Meads
    Tui Lolohea
    Russell Packer
    Nathaniel Peteru
    Agnatius Paasi
    Toka Likiliki
    Sam Lousi
    Leeson Ah Mau
    Alehana Mara
    Nafe Seluini
    Kurt Robinson
    Erin Clark
    Siliva Havili
    Raymond Faitala Mariner
    John Palavi
    Ben Henry
    Sione Lousi
    Sio Siua Taukeiaho
    Elijah Taylor
    Abraham Papaalii
    Sebastine Ikahihifo
    Matthew Robinson

    Its shocking to see how much talent the club has either wasted let go or not developed.
     
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  6. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    For year's now people have been asking what is wrong with the warriors?

    We'll here it is people. Plain as day.

    It's the heat.;)
     
  7. Johnnyray
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    Johnnyray 1st Grade Fringe

    Anybody seen this yet ? :(

    League: Australian players 'smarter' than Kiwis, says former Warriors star

    Former Warriors and Kiwi league star Elijah Taylor says Australian players are "smarter" than their New Zealand counterparts and insists the struggling Mt Smart club are paying the price for it after another dismal season.

    According to the website rlwc2017.com, Taylor questioned the development systems in place at his former club, starting at the grassroots after the Warriors finished their campaign in a disappointing 13th place - with only seven wins.

    "Back in New Zealand the game is about power and running over someone, instead of skill, tactics and kicking game," Taylor, who spent three seasons with the Warriors before joining the Penrith Panthers and later switching to the Wests Tigers, said.

    "Kicking games are non-existent until you come to the under-20s.

    "It's all about physical football - not completions or wrestle.

    "Australia have a lot of halves and people that are smart footballers. The pathways [in New Zealand] aren't as good and the quality of play."


    Taylor argued players like Jesse Bromwich, Kevin Proctor and even Warriors captain Roger Tuivasa-Sheck wouldn't be the players they are today without the help of Australian-based clubs, the website reported.

    "If a Peta Hiku stayed at the Warriors [instead of joining the Sea Eagles in 2013] they had Manu Vatuvei there, so he wouldn't have the opportunity," Taylor said.

    "The Warriors wanted to sign Roger Tuivasa-Sheck before he signed with the Roosters.

    "He would've been behind Vatuvei and might not have got the opportunity.


    "For him to go to the Roosters and win a premiership, then go back as a Warriors captain - it's a win-win for New Zealand rugby league.

    "There are 16 NRL clubs and a lot of talent in New Zealand. They get an opportunity elsewhere and it's good for rugby league."

    The Warriors held initial talks with Taylor about returning to the club he debuted for back in 2011, but discussions stalled and he re-signed with the Tigers on a three-year deal last month.

    The former Kaitaia College pupil insists travel remains a key obstacle his former side is yet to overcome under coach Stephen Kearney - with the Warriors managing just one away win in 2017.

    "Three hours one way in two days is [standard] travel for the Warriors, you're cramming it into one day when you've got back-to-back away trips," Taylor said.


    "That's the only thing I can come up with [as a reason for the Warriors' struggles] because I know they train hard. They've got the roster, facilities, financial backing and the sponsors.

    "Steve Kearney is a great coach and they've got the roster. I know they had a Melbourne-style pre-season."

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  8. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE Contributor

    Article are making the wrong link. Taylor isnt bagging the Warriors. He's bagging the NZRL...
     
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  9. Gizzyfan
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    Gizzyfan 1st Grade Fringe

    Accountability and responsibility are missing IMO. This leads from Management and it isn't happening. With the Coaching merry go round the results are all unacceptable. Kearney has tried to get them to execute the basics without much success.

    Personally to get them out of their comfort zone, I would take them to Waiouru for at least a week pre season and stay on base. No 1's to be worn at dinner time, no exceptions. This is a pre curser to expectations during the season for assembly, travel and after match.

    STRICT protocols on punctuality, if a training is scheduled for 2.00pm, that means players are changed and ready to start training at 2.00pm.

    These are small things but are so important to building a team. Mainly it instils discipline. You talk to soldiers who have experience combat, they then appreciate the importance of drill for combat readiness.

    Red bull and medicines and nooky in breach of team protocols is a worry. Mainly because it seems to group efforts by senior players. One off indiscretions can happen but coordinated breaches are a concern. Management has to step up and take control of the Asylum.

    Handy hint, Managers need to manage, they set the rules. On the other hand Players are called that because they are.............Players. Simple really.

    If done right bringing in that accountability and responsibility will bring focus to the squad. How many times over the last years have they failed to close out games. That is focus.

    Sorry for the rant.
     
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  10. ko wai ra
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    ko wai ra NSW Cup Player

    Dam by all accounts,we are a poor mans version of BALLERS!!!
    -mooted new stadium
    -players on the gear
    -coaches being sackd
    -dwn low hoes having babies
    -bodene probs has concussion issues

    But instead of big pec's we got BIG nasal cavities haaaaa
    Expect to an extortion episode coming out soon
     
  11. PNG Kiwi
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    PNG Kiwi Warriors Bench Player

    Absolutely nailed it, we have all expressed our frustrations on what is wrong with the Warriors, and changing the rules of engagement to get results is required.
    So we have started to recruit to get a bit of starch into the team and getting rid of the pill poppers. Hopefully Bodene isn't resigned not because he hasn't got talent but because he rightfully or wrongfully is now bad PR for the brand.
     
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  12. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    From the NZ Herald today, couldn't help noticing.
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    The Big Read: What is wrong with Auckland rugby?
    Hitting rock bottom usually forces major change. There are no excuses left; no room to dodge reality.

    This is where the most visible arm of Auckland rugby now sits, regardless of whether they are relegated from the Mitre 10 Cup Premiership this weekend.

    The ignominy of relegation may not be what it used to but, if it comes to pass, severely dented pride, and further erosion of status, still immediately follows.

    Whether they drop a division or not, Auckland's gradual deterioration can no longer be ignored, or accepted. It's a plight that pleases some but also hurts many, not least those who contributed greatly to the union's halcyon days.

    It may be hard to believe now, after a 10-year title drought, but Auckland captured 15 championships from 1976-2005. The team of 1985-1993 made 61 defences of the coveted Ranfurly Shield. That record still stands. Only now, it is a symbol of just how far the once revered have fallen.

    "The whole country was in awe of Auckland," All Blacks great Bryan Williams, a former Auckland player, coach and board member, said. "That's definitely changed hasn't it?"

    Williams laments, among other things, the simple error rate of this year's team. He recalls his Auckland side going successive trainings without one mistake - and when Joe Stanley finally did drop the ball, gasps emerged. No pats on the back. Stanley swiftly and sincerely apologised.

    Standards and accountability set by today's team do not warrant comparison.

    "It's hugely disappointing to see the continued lack of performance."

    Comparing eras is not entirely fair. All Blacks rarely turn out for the provinces these days, with Super Rugby reducing it to a third-tier development competition.

    Yet Auckland still boasts a squad that has, once again, grossly underperformed.

    New Zealand's largest and most ethnically diverse city is a complex beast with many heads. But it seems three areas need drastic improvement before this union will rise again.

    They include: talent pathways, calibre of coaches, and a dysfunctional relationship with the Blues.

    In the initial years of professionalism, Auckland and the Blues were virtually one dominant entity. Wellington were also the Hurricanes; Canterbury the Crusaders.

    The advent of private ownership changed that dynamic, and in the case of Auckland clearly for the worse. During those early years North Harbour in particular were largely frozen out of the Blues. It remains a sore point today, and forms part of the reason a major divide developed between Auckland rugby and the Blues.

    The other was a personality clash between former long-serving Blues and Auckland chief executive Andy Dalton, and Blues private owner Murray Bolton. This feud progressed to the point where Auckland is largely not welcome to use the Blues' purpose-built base at Alexandra Park.

    Yes, two rugby organisations in the same city apparently can't co-exist at the same facility. Auckland is on the hunt for their own training base after the council effectively kicked them out of Nixon Park.

    Other Blues board members are known to have long-held grudges with Auckland rugby, too.

    "I'm really concerned for one about the disconnect between the Blues and the provinces," Williams said. "It's a fundamental flaw. Unless they fix that we're going to continue to beat our head against a brick wall.

    "I would have thought the Blues would welcome their unions to use their facilities but apparently they don't.

    "It really shouldn't happen. It's like coalition government - sort it out and get on with it."
    Williams' frustrations are shared by Wayne Pivac, who coached Auckland to the 2002 and '03 provincial titles and this year guided the Llanelli-based Scarlets to the Pro 12 championship.

    "I don't think there is that alignment anymore. Some people within the Blues franchise are very happy about that," Pivac said.

    "Auckland is a big union with a magnificent history behind it. With the catchment area and talent available you expect much better."

    Auckland chief executive Jarrod Bear has been in the role 12 months. In that time, he believes ties with the Blues have improved to the point where he talks regularly with counterpart Michael Redman.

    "I'm always open to how we can improve that relationship and foster greater success," Bear said. "To a certain extent we're different organisations. We don't necessarily always have the same objectives but where we can walk hand-in-hand we're totally up for that. I'm not in a position to talk about the board but my direct relationship with Michael is positive."

    Coaching is the next concern. From Sir Fred Allen to John Hart, Maurice Trapp and Williams who together compiled a scarcely believable 94 per cent record, and Sir Graham Henry, Auckland have harnessed brilliant rugby minds.

    Henry was briefly involved this year in the week leading up to Auckland's 38-19 victory over Bay of Plenty - a rare bright spot in an otherwise forgettable campaign.

    Appointing Nick White under the continuity theory is thought to have involved a flawed process that was not thorough enough. Before last night's final round robin match, White had eight wins from 19 games in two seasons.

    Pivac praised White's work under him at Northland and Auckland but it is clear the former Blues prop was not ready for the jump from assistant to head coach.

    Auckland's management team this year also featured two scrum coaches.

    These failings ultimately rest with Auckland rugby's hierarchy and cannot be repeated. Advertising White's role well before the end of this season was an embarrassing look for all involved.

    "I was surprised when I saw the coaching team that was put together and the compatibility of the people," Pivac said. "On paper they have a very good side."

    When any coaching group can't challenge the players it creates a vicious cycle. Players, many of whom come from high performance systems where everything is done for them into a semi-professional environment, become unmotivated. As we've seen this year, it all then falls apart.

    Williams believes experienced club coaches who understand the region must be groomed and embraced.

    "The management needs to be looked at too with the decisions that have been made and appointment of various people. If you go back and look at some of the horrendous appointments historically at the Blues as well you can trace the beginning of the demise.

    "It comes back to building the right sort of culture. The players have got to want to represent Auckland and know what that means. It's a magnificent city, Auckland. It's got huge natural beauty and attractions but you get the sense the players don't understand what they're representing.

    "I know when old timers like me talk about these things the modern-day player will say they do understand who they represent but this is the most successful union in the country so show it consistently."

    Applications for White's successor closed yesterday with over 24 candidates signalling their interest after an independent global search. Bear suggested the next coach could well come from outside the region.

    "Ultimately it would be nice for us to recruit from within our community but potentially we haven't got the right development of coaches coming through," Bear said. "They may or may not be ready."

    Underwhelming results only make retaining talent more difficult. Auckland, the only region to send two teams, won the national under 19 tournament this year and had nine players in the world champion New Zealand under 20s.

    Five from the under 19s played for Auckland in this year's Mitre 10 Cup but how many more progress is uncertain. Electric finisher Braydon Ennor, the leading provincial try-scorer this year, is just one to already slip through from the NZ 20s, having come through Saint Kentigern College only to be snapped up by Canterbury and the Crusaders.

    Ennor is a classic case of Auckland's world-class first XV competition being cherry picked by aggressive talent scouts but it also reflects Canterbury's recent success of developing and promoting players.

    Other factors such as Auckland's cost of living, combined with a blanket $1 million Mitre 10 Cup salary cap where salaries range from $21,000 through to $55,000, also contribute to retention challenges.

    The reality, with one team, is Auckland will never provide a home for all its talent. But selecting and growing the right players remains crucial.

    "There are a lot of Auckland-based players playing across the bridge and for other sides," Pivac said. "A few years ago those players would want to pull on an Auckland jersey.

    That's something that has to be addressed. Every young guy coming through a first XV in Auckland you would like to think would want to pull on a blue and white hooped jersey."
    Bear is aware this can't continue. With Ben Meyer moving to head of high performance changes are being made to how age-grade teams - as far down as the under-14s - are selected and approach the game.

    Instead, for instance, of picking two strong ball-carrying midfielders, the message now is to seek a balanced pairing that also offers strong defensive and distribution skills.

    Strategies and tactics will be provided to these teams so the objective is not simply to roll opposition by 60 odd points, but rather mould players who will excel in the professional arena.

    "That's going to be quite a quantum shift in how we drive high performance," Bear said.

    "This season has provided the catalyst to look at our systems; look at ourselves in terms of how we improve and set-up for sustainable success - not just a short term solution.
    "Whilst we want to see instant success in 2018, and that will be our objective, it's going to take three- to-five years to see the fruition of what happens within talent identification through to the Mitre 10 Cup."

    Auckland's nadir has arrived. It may be a different era but this province must now learn to pick itself up and do its proud history justice.
     
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  13. jonno
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    jonno Warriors 1st Grader

    Winning at the junior levels but failing at the senior level. Sounds like Auckland alright...
     
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  14. PNG Kiwi
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    PNG Kiwi Warriors Bench Player

    There is obviously a reason the Blues and Warriors are underachieving, and when on paper have a great catchment pool of talent.

    I would think that with the first XV competition that rugby has a bigger advantage and the dream to be an All Black. But sounds if a lot of talent goes to other franchises.

    League tries to identify talent as well and a lot of it from the rugby First XV competition, still talent available but the same cultural pressures these young men have from extended family to succeed.

    Maybe physically their talent kicks in earlier but plateaus earlier because they are raw athletes and in the Warriors environment maybe don't have the grounding in Rugby League nous and the ticker to handle constant pressure.

    What I think happens up to a point everything these young men achieve easily is because they are raw athletes more so than the average Joe, so it seems they do not have to stretch themselves as much. When they get to the next level most have to work that much harder and mentally this is outside their comfort zone. Up to this point family and extended family have built them up as been the next best thing, pressure again some handle it some don't.

    Years gone by in Rugby young men with farming backgrounds tough uncompromising were where a lot of talent came from but with the urbin shift their grandkids too busy playing playstation or whatever it is these days, social media, and not running around the paddocks developing stamina and attitude.
     
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  15. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    I have had rugby people tell me this is the major problem. Rugby is seen as a business to be exploited for the extended family. The game is second.
     
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  16. tajhay
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    tajhay On Titanic.

    So much to learn from the all blacks.

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  17. Destructodisc
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    Destructodisc U20's Player

    While we're talking about the ABs be nice to see a few of their unwanted 4th-5th stringers try their hand at league
     
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  18. flying coconut
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    flying coconut 1st Grade Fringe

    30% of the Warriors squad would not be able to read the principals, 10% wouldnt even understand them and the other 60% would probably stop reading at the 2nd or 3rd on till about the 3rd one then go an play playstation.
     
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  19. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE Contributor

    6. No dickheads only applies to average ABs. When you are the one of the best players in the world ie Aaron Smith you get passes...
     
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  20. bruce
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    bruce Warriors 1st Grader Contributor

    Why is he a dickhead? Because he shagged a willing participant in the toilets? Get real.
     
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